Quick Lookovers

[Samson]

So! I've gotten a chance to play with every class through at least the first five levels of the dungeon at monster level five, and have gotten everyone to about level fifteen. So, quick reviews!


Rogue - Fun, and plays just like the original, provided you use a bow with Fast or Very Fast attack speed. The scatter arrows skill is fun, you can shotgun enemies who enter close range or carpet bomb mobs at range. Fun! She's the one I'm currently playing further into the Caves, and although she feels more survivable than the Assassin, I completely skipped fighting the Smith. He was such a nightmare with the Assassin, I didn't want to do it again, and didn't trust that she'd survive.

Warrior - A strong, tanky melee combatant. Seemed fun and versatile. I definitely felt how much the shield changes combat, over the Assassin.

Sorcerer - With all of my points going into Magic and without much in the way of HP-boosting gear, the Sorcerer feels very much like a glass cannon. The fast cast speed and strong spells are fun, though.

Necromancer - I haven't gotten the Necromancer far enough to get his final skill, which boosts his HP and turns all casting into blood magic, so he more or less just felt like a much less fragile Sorcerer with a few summons to distract melee enemies. Still fun! Looking forward to having a small army of skeletons.

Barbarian - Well, the Barbarian didn't feel as strong as the Warrior. I definitely noticed how the axe doesn't give bonus damage against Beasts or Undead, like swords or maces do. I also definitely noticed how not having a shield made him more fragile than the Warrior. Although, his Cleaving Strike not having a mana cost is fun, and I did get his stats high enough for a big armour upgrade before I stopped using him, so he could be more tanky when I go back to him.


Any thoughts, anyone? Any tips or things that I'm missing?

[aleeque]

Rogue and Warrior seem to be the strongest late-game classes to me for following reasons:

- Rogue has no problems with immunities, unlike the Sorceror. She is ranged, easily avoids melee combat (so doesn't have to deal with bullshit champion affixes such as Fire Enchanted or Lightning Enchanted), doesn't have to chase anyone, has a powerful aoe attack, can use magic.

- Warrior has an instant-cast gapcloser. He can't be kited by any monster in the game. No problems whatsoever killing goatmen or succubi or advocates. All of them are easy, and you get infinite mana with some leech jewelry. He also has no trouble with monster immunities, just like the Rogue.


Barbarian, on the other hand, seems kinda weak in the sense that his only gapcloser is Teleport which has a long cast time.

[DacianDraco]

Yeah, first off i've seen different ppl making such topics and besides ppl's preference i can tell you there is no best or worst class, everybody has it's own opinion, so such topics are redundant and create a false impression. Also playing through Normal makes for a poor assessment of the overall mod or how the characters are played, everybody does this and it's annoying, but i know why, they think they are playing vanilla D1 when anything can drop in any difficulty and it's all the same basically, no matter the difficulty. I try to avoid such topics because it might seem i'm attacking some player or defending the developer when it's not my intention, so i stick to helping in specific situations, because i know that even with all my knowledge i couldn't asses the whole mod and i'd surely forget stuff, i can't actively think at everything about in it even thou I've played it with 3 sets of each character up to Torment difficulty and tested most gear combinations and various tactics.

Now for the main course, with the Rogue if you get a fast bow and learn how to side step and use Golem and Teleport, maybe some buffs against bosses it's all good, you can only die from getting in melee, standing still and basically playing reckless. There is no need for high AC, hit recovery %, up to +95% resist (as preferred by melee classes) but all this if you are good at side stepping, with enough playtime you know how long it takes for projectiles to travel and you can just avoid them entirely. Some ppl chose Mana Leech, i chose Life leech and just use Mana potions (helps with Teleport and Golem when i can't hit and replenish mana) but i can play both ways. And the Smith is just Butcher 2.0, and if you beat the Armorer in River of Flame, it's just laziness that keeps one from beating the Smith, which is not mandatory anyway.

Warrior is actually not stronger as one might think (not better than the Barbarian anyway), from numerous projectiles he can get into block recovery with his shield if the % is high enough, so has to stay mobile and actually is not as mobile as the Barbarian using Frenzy (overall speed, walk, recovery, attack), even with the AC drawback of Frenzy he still clears the room faster than a Warrior, also the Barb gains innate elemental resistances and his skills don't require mana, so the Warrior also need more resistance gear and mana leech (or just mana/rejuv pots) while Barbarian can focus more on raw damage and have just life pots.

Sorcerer with all points into Magic goes easily over 1k Mana and with Mana Shield he hardly dies (unless you get into melee and he is stunlocked, similar to Rogue), plus gains some Physical resistance from Mana Shield. With Elemental Drain and a staff (finally needing some gear unlike other characters that need gear earlier on) with up to -30% elemental resist and multi target spells (if you'd like it even dedicated gear with over +20 softpoints on a certain spell) he has no problem whatsoever, some spells even got a cooldown because of this, but still i feel he is still a bit OP. His skills also provide him with speed (slow for everyone else) and survivability (significant AC and resist buff), with these i can and like to play him kamikaze style, buffing and teleporting around to clear the level, best done in dungeon levels that have environment which can be used to your advantage.

For the Necromancer his minions get better with Difficulty (as does the Golem for everyone) and with 15-20 Skeletons you can just sit and watch how they clear the room, also his life goes over 1k easily so he is more or less equal to Sorcerer, just different since his top damage is physical but uses spells equally, maybe he is safer, maybe he is slower but this all depends on how you play him. I sometimes like to just Teleport with all my minions right next to target and move away, while all of them are clumped up in a square and annihilate the target. Also don't disconsider the physical damage of Corpse Explosion (also gets better with difficulty since it uses monster life and it increases with difficulty).

About the Barbarian i've said some of his strong points to show he's not weaker than the Warrior, in fact he's speed can be borderline uncontrollable with higher clvl and STR synergy with Frenzy. Also doesn't specifically need what the Warrior needs, that's why his skills also have a drawback to balance things out, he's not just a Warrior with a 2h weapon, and also doesn't use spells as much as the Warrior, because of lower Mana pool and slower cast rate, but is not at all weaker, just different.

As for the Assassin she deals the most physical dmg in game, and with enough life leech, the attack speed from Fanaticsm and good reaction time it doesn't matter that she has lower life than the Warrior or Barbarian, keep hitting and you are immortal, leveling might pose a problem but it's a learning experience, hard to master but most powerful imo. I guess saying powerful can be misleading as she isn't anyone's cup off tee considering the hit and run tactic, most ppl are not used to running away because in most games you can straight up tank with any character. I've personally taken down Bosses with just Dragon Flight alone, but ppl don't run so not all like or can make this work.

And lets consider Hardcore on any game that has this option, it is possible because there are very few or none 1 hit deaths in game, such thing is not possible in this mod. Why? Because in order for the game to allow more item qualities and various affixes (not just magic item with 2 affixes like in vanilla) and offer different gear options and a welcomed variety of items that actually have use (unlike the uniq items in vanilla) it was needed to increase the difficulty of killing monsters and giving them resists and other such enchantments so you'd have to learn and specialize against various situations. Sure some combinations are harder to beat than others, but none are impossible and variety is always welcomed imo, but some just want to spam the same 1 button to kill stuff, well this mod is not for them. Death has no meaning in most games, but here it means you have to retry from 0, so you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing and give your best, while other games let you do whatever and don't punish your mistakes.

So to conclude, comparisons between classes is pointless, i've done it to show different aspects or things one might have overlooked (i probably looked over some stuff as well) and overall all classes have their ups and downs but all can be overcomed with choice in gear or better playstyle. And as much as i don't like bringing up vanilla or other games unfortunately i'm forced to in order to evidentiate differences and what makes this mod unique and replayable, it's not just HD, it's a new game and every aspect was changed in-depth, so lets focus on it as a new thing not like how it changed stuff, because it was remade entirely, it just happens to look like D1.

[Samson]

Eh...Dacian, I wasn't looking for the strongest/weakest class, or comparing the mod to vanilla, or trying to create a redundant thread to give new people a distorted first impression, or even complaining ^_^" I was just giving my initial thoughts on the other classes, just like I did with the Assassin, and looking for tips on things I can do to use them to their full potential. You know, things in a playstyle that I might've overlooked, like how I didn't much use Narcosis or spells as an Assassin, and became better and felt stronger once I did begin using them.

I know that playing through just the first five levels of Normal isn't going to give the most thorough understanding of the classes, but like I said in the thread title, these were just quick lookovers, just like the initial impressions section of my Assassin review thread ^_^" I wasn't trying to be annoying, but thanks for the tips on the classes.

[aleeque]

I don't know, I just can't see the Barbarian getting close to a succubus or a goatman, or a mage. He has no gapcloser. Frenzy is nice and all, but it doesn't help much, you just walk faster.

P.S. you said the Warrior can be block locked if using a shield, can't you just use a 2H sword instead?

[DacianDraco]

@Samson I'm not saying you were doing anything wrong, it's more about me than it is about you. And it's just that everyone has his own take on the mod and look over some aspects pointing out what they prefer or have discovered, and i've read them all and i find tiresome to equate "the whole", so i don't enjoy replying to such topics because it doesn't specifically help, someone else might not even find it with Search forum function when looking for tips on some issue he has, it will just go down on other pages like the numerous topics like this made by other ppl. But i do reply because someone has to, and i try my best to balance and explain "the whole" but actually can't at a satisfactory level because ppl see and do things differently, and even i occasionally find something new so mine is not the best or a complete answer, and other players will reply just by pointing out their preference at the moment, who knows what may happen later on. This results in conflicting opinions that can confuse a new player who doesn't know which class to focus on first for ex. All of us typing and all the reading doesn't really matter, anyone should just play the mod and discover what they like and how to play it, it would simply be better than all of us discussing about it, more so i know many more topics like this will arise so i feel i'm repeating myself and wasting time.

@aleeque The shield is not bad, it's just that with higher Block % it can also cause block recovery lock, so it's not always best to have a shield or even with the Barbarian instead of a 2h weapon. And without a shield equipped the Warrior can't use Shield Wall (can't have it on switch just to buff, buff disappears if you don't have the shield). I personally would rather use a 2h sword with the Barbarian, with his speed from Frenzy he would be faster than the Warrior. Also all of the fast moving or fleeing monsters, like Goatmen, Spitting Terrors, Bone Demons, Succubi, Mages and all others i'm forgetting are balanced to have terrible hit recovery, so you can easily put them in stunlock and get to them faster with a bit of walk speed, which the Barbarian has way more than he needs, i was serious when i said he can be borderline uncontrollable.

Now i'll show you similar gear used with both the Warrior and the Barbarian, armor differs, and at the Gam'ar fight the helm changes for the Magic Resist, but overall it's similar, yet the Barbarian beats Torment in 20min while the Warrior does so in almost 1h. Also we must acknowledge that the Warrior is lower level than than the Barbarian, still it can be seen as a valid test, or at least that the Barbarian doesn't have issue with speed and that the Warrior is not necessarily faster or privileged.
Barbarian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBtV-5fWNRw
Warrior https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qda6b_X080M

[aleeque]

Sorry, but your videos are from Terror Domain where no one runs away (advos are relatively easy compared to goatmen or succubi). Not really a great example.

I'm playing through Nightmare as a Barbarian right now with gear handed down by my Sorceror and it's so annoying I'm considering just ignoring this class from now on. I'm forced to just skip entire levels, and with Barbarian's weakest Teleport and mana pool in the game, it's not fun.

Example: any succubus/goatman champion with Haste. Impossible to hit it once. Physically impossible, not figuratively. Even with full stacks of Frenzy and a very fast weapon, they outrun you easily. If you try to Telekill, they run away while you're swinging your axe. Not fun.

Another example: those spitting snake bosses from the Lost Treasure quest. They spit at you and run away. Again, even with full Frenzy you can't chase them. And maintaining said Frenzy is a feat in itself when you can't hit anything in the first place.

And those are just champion examples. Chasing REGULAR mobs isn't easy either. I mean, it's doable but that's it - just doable. Not fun, not easy, not fast. Simply doable.

Oh, and did I mention that every single melee champion that spawns with either of these: Mastery/Extra Strong/Haste just oneshots me and again, I have to skip them? I have 250 armor and 550 hp. This is so poorly balanced.

Meanwhile, on my Rogue with far more inferior gear, I'm just blasting through Nightmare. Ranged mobs try to kite me? Lol they can't, I'm ranged too. A champion pack with Extra Strong Mastery Haste Fire Enchanted? Lol Multishot, they get stunlocked and die in two hits. My damage output is insane, and nothing can get close as I teleport around with my huge mana pool and fast spell cast animation. I'm clearing levels about 6-7 times faster than my Barbarian does! And that's with worse gear!

I know you're gonna say: "but this is Nightmare, wait till you get to Torment and max out your gear". Yeah, I suppose Barbarian is great in Terror Domain with best in slot items. But that's not really an argument, Terror Domain is like 1% of the entire game.


P.S. One more thing. The Warrior and Barbarian both desperately need a LOT of life steal (just one 3-5% ring won't do! No no no, you need to have 8% or more) and the "cannot be frozen" affix. The Rogue doesn't give a damn about either of those. You can easily dodge any incoming projectiles so you are never frozen, and even if you do get hit by those from time to time - so what? Big deal, you can still fight, unlike the melee classes. And as for leech items, with a Rogue you only need any crappy ring with 5% mana steal. That's very easy to get.

P.P.S. I'm not done yet. The Rogue also doesn't need % to hit items (because Dex is her main stat, duh) OR faster hit recovery (because no monster can ever reach her), so you get free item stats because of it.

[DacianDraco]

It's a perfect example for Warrior vs Barbarian with similar gear at clearing a level, no matter what monsters are in it, Warrior does not have an easier time or is faster like you want to believe, that's what the example was for. All 3 melee classes have a harder time with stuff a ranged character doesn't, and you're doing exactly what i know everyone does, comparing apples with pears (Rogue vs Barbarian/Warrior) and evidentiating your preference of whatever, blaming balance and what not. I think you just have to get better at playing the game with each character or farm for some gear if you feel you are lacking something. Or just play it with your preferred character and stop dissing other character you are not good at playing.

So i've made you a vid of my Barbarian in Nightmare with Normal Attack handling hasted Succubi and then with Frenzy. And even if my Barbarian is lvl 42 notice that i don't have any of my attribute points spent so it should balance out my dmg that you might think comes from "better" gear, also i assumed in Hell dungeon levels your Barbarian is around lvl 34, so i chose only Rare quality gear around that required level, also i chose the AC around 250 and life around 550, just like you said your character has for my testing purposes.
https://youtu.be/tsdpy4tdoDE

I found no problem whatsoever, he gets to them with or without walk speed (from Frenzy) and if you want i can do other stuff as well to prove it's not as bad as you want everyone to believe.

[aleeque]

I'm not comparing apples with oranges, I'm comparing classes to one another. They are supposed to be equally strong in various environments.

In your vid, you just spent half a minute chasing three succubi - with Frenzy! With my Rogue, I could've just shot them to death in about two seconds.

Sorry, but no. This mod is badly balanced. Terror Domain on Torment is NOT an accurate representation of gameplay in any way. I don't care that a best in slot melee class does well there if they struggle greatly while leveling from 1 to 50.

I'm not "dissing" anything, I'm just saying some classes are basically unplayable due to spending a much longer time leveling. It was like this in vanilla Diablo, it is like this here.

I mean, you could just skip dungeon levels when they spawn with certain types of mobs, or spend fifteen minutes clearing each level, but that's not fun when you have classes that spend one fifth of that time.


P.S.

also i chose the AC around 250 and life around 550

You didn't even read my post properly, did you? I was talking about MELEE champions when mentioning my defence stats. A Haste/Mastery/Extra Strong champion (not all three, mind you, just a combination of two of the above) literally oneshots my Barbarian. In Nightmare. I often times can't even pop a potion because I die in a single hit. Great balance right there!

Meanwhile, the Rogue just teleports across the wall repeatedly and spams Guided Arrow.

P.P.S.

he gets to them with or without walk speed

There ARE monsters that you cannot walk up to because they outrun you. This is a fact. I was talking about a unique mob, not a regular one. Yes, they aren't that frequent, but they do exist and I regularly have to skip them because the ONLY option to hit them is to use Teleport. And when I do Teleport, I land one hit and then they run away again. No, this isn't because I'm bad, spare me your assumptions.

[DacianDraco]

You are the one who is not reading or just can't admit when he's looking at thinks wrong, there is no comparison on any level, all can deal with anything. And no, they are not supposed to be equally "strong" (rough definition), and each deal with stuff in their own way, slower or faster, safer or riskier, that's why there are several classes to provide a different experience. I could argue that a Sorcerer is better than the Rogue at leveling because he can use any staff and learn more spells than deal more dmg, or that the Rogue sucks because she doesn't have hit recovery or the defense of Warrior with shield, but such comparisons are pointless and i've explained it well enough in my previous posts, it's precisely why i said i dislike this type of discussion. All characters have flaws and excel at something. They are different because that's how they are supposed to be, not equal by all means, you're not gonna play different classes in the same way and so their gear will focus on different aspects to make them good according to their playstyle. And all can be perceived as "strong" (not necessarily faster or easier) by playing them right even if you refuse to see it as so.

More so nothing is unplayable, and again i'm getting to my point that it's just a matter of preference, you like easy and safe that's fine, others may prefer spending half a min chasing succubi or whatever. Besides a couple of regular playthroughs with all characters when i had no issue i've also gotten all 6 classes to lvl 42 in Torment without spending any attribute points from leveling or drinking the + all base stat quest rewards, also learned just 1 lvl of each spell, so it's playable even with severe handicap, didn't skip anything, didn't overlevel, didn't farm and just itemized properly when i needed to, and i can say there are no situations that can't be overcome with strategy and/or gear or just persistence. You don't have gear? Farm, i've done it and i have 97% of all uniq/sets and tried out most things. If you don't feel like putting the time into beating one boss or whomever you think is unfair, then don't, you don't like the monster roll of the map you have the option to reroll the map to make it easier for yourself. The mod is not gonna change because you think all classes must be fast and safe, or equal in all environments. And i've never seen any monsters deal 550+ dmg to one shot a Barbarian (even without the 2 buffing skills that help survivability and grant dmg), seriously now you are just exaggerating, if you are not than make a vid and show everyone this elusive monster. Also feel free to also show any monster that can't be reached/hit/killed/whatever, because again you are exaggerating. These do not exist.

[aleeque]

that's why there are several classes to provide a different experience

When the experience varies so much as to make walkthrough without twink items physically impossible and with twink items painfully slow, annoying and tedious, that's a sign of a badly balanced game.

Vanilla Diablo had the exact same problem: you had ZERO chance progressing past Normal (and great difficulties beating even Normal!) on a Warrior unless you were handed down a KSoH and some LAW gear at the very least.

I could argue that a Sorcerer is better than the Rogue at leveling because

At leveling as in gaining experience - yes. At walking through the game - no, he becomes bad as soon as quad immunes become common. And that's another retarded thing that shouldn't be in the game. So your argument would be bad as it has no basis in reality.

or that the Rogue sucks because she doesn't have hit recovery

That would be another stupid point because she doesn't NEED hit recovery. There is only one monster in the entire game that can teleport on you, and that's Bloodlord. Everything else is easily kited. Hell, even Bloodlord can't use his Teleport if you walk in front of him.

All characters have flaws and excel at something

Well no shit Sherlock! But all classes have to NOT be flawed at walking through the game. That's an absolute must.

you're not gonna play different classes in the same way

Neither was I asking to. What I want is for classes to be viable in all environments. Note - viable. Right now, my Barbarian is not viable. He's level 34 and can't clear Nightmare levels at 1/5th the speed of my Rogue. They have equal gear. That's retarded.

others may prefer spending half a min chasing succubi

Then they're masochists. Chasing a single mob for half a minute was new in 1996. Actually, I doubt it was fun even then. Do you really believe people who enjoy this are in the majority?

when i had no issue

You're having HUGE problems in your last video even when you're trying to make a point in your own favor. Please don't lie to me saying "you had no issues". Advancing super slow through a level is definitely an issue. Getting oneshot by mobs with certain affix combos is also a big issue.

so it's playable even with severe handicap

So is BNM. So what? I never said the game wasn't beatable. It's just so slow on certain classes that it becomes an ordeal compared to the Rogue who spams Multishot and clears a level in a few minutes.

if you are not than make a vid and show everyone this elusive monster

There are plenty of them. Try the Smith or any random monster whose base type is a good melee fighter + extra strong + haste/mastery. Have fun dueling that.


Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I'll just stick to my Rogue and MAYBE the Warrior if he proves to be strong enough to handle all the bullshit oneshot uniques and champions.

[DacianDraco]

All talk and no show? Sorry you are mistaking again, i'd be nice if you showed some examples for me to dismiss but i'll work with what you gave me.

So the OP here chose Assassin on his 1st playthrough, what does this mean? Could it be that it's possible to start and progress even with the hardest class to master, not as fast but hey to each their own. Also he skipped The Smith with his Rogue, my my, this means Rogue is imbalanced (kidding). Remember preference and everybody has it's own opinion? I only mentioned it over and over again. Oh yeah and you also said it's "physically impossible" to hit Hasted succubi and i made a vid showing Normal Attack can work while you said "Even with full stacks of Frenzy and a very fast weapon, they outrun you easily". Please, tell me more of these "physically impossible" feats. Also anyone can beat vanilla, game has no challenge basically, that's why every mod made is harder, and stop bringing it up, since my 1st reply i knew this will happen, it's irrelevant like all comparisons and i dislike having to follow them through and dismiss them for the nth time.

Then the 1st all immune monster in game is the Undead Balrog from Island of the Sunless See in Hell difficulty, well not entirely cause he can be damaged by Holy Bolt, but anyway you need just a -10 % lightning resist to damage it, you can have it just from staves, it's not uncommon, then all up to Hell's Terror Domain none have all immunities as far as i remember, mostly 3, even if they do you can still break them with same gear. Now in Terror's Domain you need about -15% resist paired with Elemental Drain to get you over -50% (maybe 60%, don't remember the nr exactly the Sorcerer gets to) to damage all mobs. Then moving forward to Torment difficulty, the Cathedral levels (and maybe Catacombs too, at least most of them) don't need more than a -15% resist but with farming and rngesus you can get a staff with up to -30% element resist and paired with Elemental Drain it's more than enough. Also Meteor Cluster and Apocalypse have physical components, Golem is pure physical, but i guess these spells and the 2 and a half min cooldown of the Elemental Drain skill are not to to everyone's liking, not fast enough, not balanced, bla bla bla.

Quick recap, you compared Barbarian with Warrior, i showed it's not slower and can deal with anything, then made a vid vs hasted fleeing mobs while you didn't want to admit you were wrong and abruptly switched to telling me how Rogue is faster and all the shit she doesn't have to worry because she is not melee (apples and pears), i knowingly and out front indulge in the specifically said pointless "arguments" and you now say it's stupid because it's not needed, yeah, by drawing the line all you said can be seen as stupid and i used your style of storytelling to show it. It's evident from what i wrote about classes in 1st post and you could have caught on to the bait if you had paid attention. Thanks, you made my day.

Now not absolutely everyone chooses only one class to play the game for the 1st time then hand down everything, my 1st time i did it with all 6 classes in parallel with just rares (powered by persistence) up to Torment, back then i didn't knew how to play it and didn't have much of anything (uniq/sets/recipes) but was just curious how the newly added rare quality items can perform. And if you chose them right they are fine (not for you, i know, i got it, it's "Physically impossible, not figuratively." ). Plus no one that just started has reached a point where they are forever stuck, overleveling and some farming will push you forward all the time. Do you seriously think that after all the year and all the players that tried this you are that start guy to figure some characters can't walk through the game? Maybe you're not, or maybe you're just trolling me. Either way it's not as you've exaggerated it and it doesn't need to be fast and safe allover to be "balanced", and maybe i will give a solution next.

And let's merge stuff a bit since this is getting to long, your definition of viable is just that, your definition, i propose a heavy Rogue nerf just to see you rage. They all work in their own way (repeating myself), just not to your linking (or skill) and i don't know why i care to tell you this again and again, it doesn't get through. As for preference, you have no say about it, it's subjective and each has their own. But feel free to make your own game/mod or enjoy the dumbed down shit that comes out in 2016, fun is also subjective. And please anyone else reading this tell me the huge problems i have in the vid, this guy just doesn't for some reason. Also with proper gear i believe i can put anyone in stunlock (except Diablo cause he doesn't do that) but i don't necessarily have to, i can also use spells if i feel like it, yes even with the Barbarian, i can put so much crafted shit on him that he becomes a Warlock, but that's just what i'd do for fun, melee is actually more convenient, i have 4 buffs i can abuse. So not a problem (probably a huge problem as one might say ) with "melee fighter + extra strong + haste/mastery", anyway it's not so bad.

In conclusion, i'm not arguing because i knew where this was going, danced to this tune before and know how ppl see things. And sorry if i seem like a dick, it's just i loled so hard and can't help not finding this funny, it's like seeing someone you know fall on their face, you know it's bad but you can't refrain from laughing.

[aleeque]

I never said you can't beat the game with Barbarian, I'm just saying walking through the game is much slower and much less fun than when you're using Rogue/Warrior.

Playing on my Warrior right now and it feels so much better, I can just charge into anything. Or teleport, which I can cast much faster and more often.

Also, he has way more defensive stats due to the additional armor + physical resistance from his shield AND he has two major defence buffs, one of which is permanent (i.e. you can spam Valiant Strike forever). And did I mention that Valiant Strike also knocks monsters back, even champions/uniques? This also helps tons with survivability.

[Samson]

*Wipes sweat from his brow*

I didn't expect to spark this kind of debate I'll hold off on my impressions of the classes until I've beaten at least Normal with each one, which might take me a while but will provide a more accurate viewpoint.

[rusudan]

rogue is hands down the most efficient class to play

-you can just stand and shoot since she's ranged
-you don't have to chase any annoying running things
-you rarely have to tank or take unnecesary damage
-no physical immunities to deal with
-easily attainable 100% crit chance on all abilities