Necromancer Problems

Diablo 1 HD, codename Belzebub - General forum.
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hellnecrotom
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Joined: 13 Apr, 2014 22:21

Necromancer Problems

Post by hellnecrotom »

Hello there once again. Since the Necromancer has ever been my favorite character of all times, I have decided to play it. A very well-constructed character from what I reckon, yet it still has certain annoying problems that should be addressed. I will make a short list of these and hope that the developers take a peek at it :)

1. Minions are murdered by certain spells cast by the Necromancer. Spells like Lightning, Fireball, Chain Lightning, Apocalypse have no problems, since they only kill the enemies, but spells like Firewall, Lightning Wall, Flame Wave murder the skeletons/revives/golem/zombies. The main problem here is that CORPSE EXPLOSION also kills them. That is one serious issue, as your minions will always be close to corpses, as they fight off another wave. Casting Corpse Explosion simply kills all your minions instantly and leaves you naked out there. This MUST be tweaked as no one ever uses it in favor of minion survivability.

2. Certain minions do not teleport with the player. Zombies and Revives do not teleport (and you also lose them by coming to town - this was not a problem in Diablo 2) while golem and skeletons do. Revives are essential and cost a lot more life to bring about, they should teleport with the player, as they did in Diablo 2, to avoid constant re-casting (corpses aren't cheap, you know :D).

3. Zombies are useless. If we consider their very slow speed and the need for a corpse to cast them (not to mention their timed lifespan and inability to teleport with player), we arrive at the conclusion that they are useless. The only upside is a reasonable HP amount, but that's all. Either tweak them to live forever and teleport with the player, or replace the skill.

4. The Necromancer lacks a proper tank. Now this is one of the main problems. The aforementioned character relies on minions to deal the damage needed. What he doesn't possess is a singular, proper tank (not to deal damage, just be a meat shield). If we remember correctly, we used to have a Golem in Diablo 2, having 12.000 HP while we had circa 800. He could not deal a lot of damage, but was able to take in a lot of hits, for the Necromancer to hide behind and deal some damage himself. The Golem here is very weak, having a little more than 50%+ health than the character and dies in an instant when hit by bosses such as Butcher, Leoric, etc. In Diablo 2, a Golem could withstand bosses like Duriel for at least 10 seconds. My Golem couldn't resist 3 seconds with the Butcher (in fact none of my minions did) and this is why I ended up NOT BEATING him at all on Nightmare (yet). There is no Necromancer-way to defeat bosses, only a hybrid of bad choices that will get you killed (as your minions don't help at all - not 5 seconds do they survive). Since the Necromancer is just a Sorceror with a far smaller Mana Pool and a quite lumpy attack speed with most weapons (except for a few one-handed swords), he MUST have something to hide behind. The Sorceror is superior at beating bosses because he has a very strong mana pool (due to the Mana/Magic Point + Magic Point/Level) and has Mana Shield. A singular minion with small damage, but a life pool like 500% (minimum) better than the character's should be added to provide the Necromancer with proper boss-fighting techniques. Since he was weak for boss-killing, I had to spam guardian+teleport at Diablo (normal) to beat him somehow (at lvl 30 which is quite good for normal) - minions were instantly killed by his Apocalypse :|. That is a Sorceror way of killing him with a HUGE MANA POOL. A meat shield (exclusive to him) must be implemented to offer balance to the Necromancer.

5. Heal Other should heal minions, since it does not work at all - the spell is bugged.

-------------------------

I hope that this small list will help make this mod a more balanced one and with less annoyances.

Cheers :)
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Jofuss
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Re: Necromancer Problems

Post by Jofuss »

hellnecrotom wrote:*snip* Synopsis: Necromancer isn't balanced
I haven't played much with the necromancer yet but I will offer my limited insight and opinions while posing a few questions.

1.) I personally have no problem with firewall lightning wall and flame wave damaging minions. It is not friendly fire... uhh... friendly and is not supposed to be. You will take damage from it just the same as anyone else would on multiplayer (if implemented.) Corpse explosion LOGICALLY should damage minions as well as players but that doesn't necessarily mean I think it ACTUALLY should in the game... My question is does corpse exploison hurt your character if you are standing too close? If it does, it should effect minions, if it does not, it shouldn't. (Personally I would vote for corpse explosion NOT effecting caster and thus by extension, minions as well.)

2.) I would like to think this was just an oversight... but who knows, it may be by design. :(

3.) I looked at he Zombie spell as the method for dropping the first corpse and never really actually used it for more than that or going "oh shit," casting it, and running like hell... I could be missing the boat on something though.

4.) Golem is kind of weird... It was useless for me on normal, somewhat helpful on nightmare and borderline overpowered now on hell for my sorcerer. I'm going on an assumption that the necromancer gains it the same as a sorcerer by reading tomes? I see a likely major design flaw in that its very "Magic expensive" to learn ranks... Is there an implementation to allow a necromancer to gain skill in it for less magic? If not, perhaps it should be changed to require a little less magic but also require a decent vitality stat as well? I'm not sure how to balance that out really... Then again it could be that the necro is designed to not really need or use golem in which case my argument is academic.

5.) I REALLY hope this is just an oversight...since it works for the golem... Maybe this will take a bunch of work and BrightLord didn't want us to have to wait for it to be working to give us the necro? I don't know but that's what I for one will hope.

Just my current opinion, tomorrow it might be different. :)
BrightLord

Post by BrightLord »

1. feature
2. feature - zombies and revives are not servants
3. feature - they are as usefull as item repair :)
4. feature - necromancer is tank, his main stat is vitality
5. bug
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Jofuss
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Post by Jofuss »

BrightLord wrote:1. feature
2. feature - zombies and revives are not servants
3. feature - they are as usefull as item repair :)
4. feature - necromancer is tank, his main stat is vitality
5. bug
I can see your point on all of these things except...

3.
Hey I take offense to that! Item repair is extremely useful! (Too bad the cooldown isn't 2 minutes though...)

One question I have that still exists though is whether corpse exploison hurts the caster or not? I keep meaning to play my necromancer more but I never get around to it.
BrightLord

Post by BrightLord »

It damages everything.

This skill is capable of dealing highest damage in game. There have to be some disadvantages.
hellnecrotom
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Post by hellnecrotom »

Yes, the Necro is tank by nature (appearance), yet he cannot defeat bosses with just hitpoints, he also needs attack speed and hit recovery. You can't deal significant damage if you cannot land it. This is precisely why most people will resort to spells. Of course, Butcher comes and stunlocks you, and you die. You can have 10.000 HP if you cannot land blows...

This is why I thought that he needed a tank. His vitality could be in full correlation with minion HP, but to make him a melee tank, that is somewhat queer. He needs attack speed then with weapons that deal damage and a better inherent hit recovery.

I understand the Corpse Explosion, ok.

The walls killing the minions is a little harsh, because one would use the minions to tank, while locking the enemy in the wall. That is what we used to do in Diablo 2 (Sorceress mix). This way, you must consider heavily to make a wall or not, for it also makes you naked on the battlefield.

I know that the player takes damage from his own walls (absurd, in a way), but the minions lose their usefulness at their use --- so they cancel out each other. Should this not be reconsidered?
BrightLord

Post by BrightLord »

Well necro and assassin were added without any proper balancing. Only tested if skills work. :(

It's miracle that necro is playable :D
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Jofuss
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Post by Jofuss »

BrightLord wrote:It damages everything.

This skill is capable of dealing highest damage in game. There have to be some disadvantages.
Thank you, I'm not judging I just wanted to know either way.
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Jofuss
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Post by Jofuss »

3.) I looked at he Zombie spell as the method for dropping the first corpse and never really actually used it for more than that or going "oh shit," casting it, and running like hell... I could be missing the boat on something though.
Actually now that I think about it I've only used it as the oh shit option because don't you need a corpse to cast it to begin with?
hellnecrotom
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Post by hellnecrotom »

I understand, BrightLord.

In my opinion, the Necro is very well-made and viable in late game (except for the things that I posted above). It's rather hard at Diablo, but one has to manage somehow :)).

As for the Assassin, there are huge problems. I have made a whole thread about it a little time ago, but nobody answered (I think that nobody tested her so intensively). I will post the link here so you can have a feedback on the character, take a peek:

Assassin Viability:

http://awake.diablo1.eu.org/assassin-vi ... -t527.html
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Jofuss
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Post by Jofuss »

hellnecrotom wrote:(I think that nobody tested her so intensively).
http://awake.diablo1.eu.org/assassin-vi ... -t527.html
Hey I played an assassin for like 8 or 10 whole levels before! I'm clearly an authority! O_o hehehe

I can't add much constructive criticism on the assassin because under a dozen levels on any character doesn't give you a feel for the characters strengths and weaknesses.

At least with the necromancer I had played longer than a handful of levels.
BrightLord

Post by BrightLord »

Can you spawn skeletons faster then diablo kills them?
hellnecrotom
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Post by hellnecrotom »

That is what I will try now on Nightmare, since I have beaten him on normal with Guardian (not having Blood Ritual then caused skellies to be quite costly). In a few hours I will test this, because, to be honest, that is what I do with extremely hard mobs such as the Smith - I spawn skellies faster than he can kill them. Will be reporting in shortly.

Stand by
hellnecrotom
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Post by hellnecrotom »

Well, I can summon faster than he can kill, so I guess a better tank would be obsolete. Point 4 canceled then :). Diablo was murdered on Nightmare.

Good balance!

Cheers
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