Monster power vs Magic find

[Caocao84]

First of all thanks for the great work, your site + forums are a pure gold mine for anyone playing this game.

I got back to D1 after 20+ years by accident during a D3 maintenance this week, and got totally addicted to this mod. As I am progressing deeper in the dungeon, I get more and more xp/gear/spells/stats, but also having more and more questions about the mechanics of the game, which are mostly all covered by the site and the forum.

I play warrior level 32, got to nightmare level 6 WP, killed butcher+Leoric, after 1 day of nightmare progression, I went back to normal for crafts/slavage.
I wanted to see how hard would be Diablo again at this point. I got a Shadowhawk during this run, the upgrade was so big that I was very surprised I could litterally farm level 16 at MP 6-10 depending on the mobtype , and TD MP 3-4 for the trash, MP 1-2 for bosses. XP and rewards are just so much better than low level nightmare somehow, so I'll stay here a bit, before pushing nightmare further, where rewards should be worth the farming.

So now I am facing a dilemma, I also got goldwrap + other significant Magic find gear, which makes me drop my stats a bit and also wondering about a choice to make: using MF gear or going the highest MP possible while doing those runs?

XP is increased with higher MP for sure, but the main reason was to get some uniques, cuz any good one would upgrade me much more than a level up.
So does the MP affect only XP or is the droprate and/or quality of items affected aswell? ( and if yes, how much? so I can know what I am doing, and if I am doing It correctly ).

MP10 with MF% would be dope, but I am sitll not at this point, and my question is for when you are still below MP 10 when doing farming runs, do you want to go 1 tier higher with best gear + elixirs, or 1-2 tiers lower with a bunch of MF? Because yes, XP is not as good, but if you get a lot of good gear, especially some uniques, I will sign for It.
On the forum, some people say that this affects only XP ( +25% additive experience per MP ), when some other say that it gives better rewards without any precision.

Basically, my question has this form, does a higher MP give better/more loots? And if yes, how much? ( got my shadowhawk at mp 0 with 0% MF + a lot of green and yellow items, this actually was the most rewarding run I did so far, while did a crappy MP 1 run with elixirs + 70% MF and got just a good rare ring, and a few average runs at MP2-4 with no MF% at all+ elixirs, so i know that luck will always be involved, but still ). Is It just additive MF% given by higher MP, or does that multilpy with MF%?

Depending how drops are affected by each MP level and MF%, the choices/options could give some extreme combos like farming MP 10 on hell/nightmare with a few hundreds of MF% if you are targeting some precise unique items.

But if MP = higher base droprate, any MF% you could get on your gear would scale with higher MP, and you could easily get best in slot items very efficiently if you go back to lower difficulties with max MF% at MP10 ( I won't do that now, but between hell and torment, I feel that this strategy could really pay well ).

From those assumptions, you have 2 possible scenarios for drops/quality of items to be increased ( additive , or multiplicative )
The first one seems to be the most likely to be to correct one, if this works the same way as exp bonus, which is +25% additive experience per MP level ( which is a pure assumption from myself, but I had to pick some numbers to illustrate my example):

1) MP = a bit of additive MF% per level +1MP = +25% flat Magic find ( pure assumption from me based on the XP increase given by MP increase ) so MF% would be already + 250% at MP10, and so the impact of your own MF% would decrease with each MP level more, regarding the MF% chart. or you can go around MP 0 to 5 with a few MF% on you if MP10 is too hard with your best gear ( but still good to have a bit of MF% if MP 0-1 is your maximum and have a few lucky MF% rolls on your gear rather than some overresists or any other useless stats, when pushing deeper levels for example, but at the end, going stronger and highest MP should be the main focus ).

2) MP = multiplicative MF% ( higher monsters' base droprate, so MF% is still effective, and even more powerful at MP10, because MF% would be applied to some enhanced droprate/quality by MP aswell, so this would give access to some ridiculous droprates that you could never reach in any other mod with no Monster power feature.

Sorry for the long text, but in both cases, It is nice that higher MP = higher rewards, It's just a matter of aproach, and could help in decision making, especially when you get a piece of equipment with MF% which is almost as good as your best in slot item. I tried to look for droprate or Magic find topics, but did not find one which gives any exact information, or any factual number, contrary to experience , which is obvous because you can litteraly see It while killing the monsters on your screen, but with droprates, you can be lucky with terrible odds or being very unlucky with good ones... so It is hard to figure It out alone.


Thanks to any who read to the end, and eternal gratitude for the guy who has a precise answer about that, if he ever exists ( and if no, I will keep playing and do my own tries, in order to answer to myself on this topic ).

[qndel]

You will never get any precise answers for such a question regarding belzebub as simply nobody has such info.

[Ugily]

Accept that the game is challenging and play through realizing that some farming and replay of levels is necessary.

Enjoy playing through the original quests in Normal mode.

Get through Nightmare and Hell as quickly as possible.

Torment is where the mod actually gets interesting.

[Caocao84]

Accept that the game is challenging and play through realizing that some farming and replay of levels is necessary.

Enjoy playing through the original quests in Normal mode.

Get through Nightmare and Hell as quickly as possible.

Torment is where the mod actually gets interesting.

Thanks for advice, but the question was more about how to farm gear the most efficiently.
I am already farming nightmare; but I would like to know which is the best way to do It when I have to pick between going higher MP or more MF%.
To be precise, I farm catacombs, and I can chose between MP0 with 100% MF, or MP1 with max stats gear.

I know that I will have to farm, just looking for the most optimal way to do It in general, not just now, and honestly I stayed on belzebub just because of MP, which is an amazing feature ( just curious about that, because there is no precise/exhaustive description of the benefits provided by monster power, except for experience ).

[Ugily]

Most rare items farmed in Nightmare and Hell difficulties will be useless later in Torment.

Your best bet is to keep playing through until you beat each dungeon level. If you haven't reached the waypoint or secondary entrance yet, just clear levels again before you make your descent. Leveling up is more important than gearing up at the stage you are in.

You will find the items that you will need just in regular game play. If you want to grind for better gear, repeat the quest areas and seek out various bosses to hunt down. Some MF gear will go a long way to insure better drops, but not worth sacrificing defenses. If you can easily beat a quest or boss area, increase the $PLAYER x to as high as you can survive. That will benefit both the experience point and loot level.

[Caocao84]

Most rare items farmed in Nightmare and Hell difficulties will be useless later in Torment.

Your best bet is to keep playing through until you beat each dungeon level. If you haven't reached the waypoint or secondary entrance yet, just clear levels again before you make your descent. Leveling up is more important than gearing up at the stage you are in.

You will find the items that you will need just in regular game play. If you want to grind for better gear, repeat the quest areas and seek out various bosses to hunt down. Some MF gear will go a long way to insure better drops, but not worth sacrificing defenses. If you can easily beat a quest or boss area, increase the $PLAYER x to as high as you can survive. That will benefit both the experience point and loot level.

Well, I was asking about the game mechanic actually ( like tchernobog Magic find calculator for example, with precise numbers for each kind of mob/quality drops ).
Even doing speedruns at MP0 with 0% MF will give me drops at some point, and I also agree that I should run the highest MP possible with the MF%, but as the topic says, my concern is about "MF% vs MP", and finding the sweetest spot/balance, since I plan to play for weeks, if not months at least, and I wish I can apreciate every aspect of the game that could be relevant, especially toying with MF%, I was missing this so much in D3.

Let's just take an example: is It better to farm MP4 with 150%MF/MP5 with 100%MF/MP6 with 50%MF for the same level and difficulty?
As you see, making the decision between higher MP or more MF% is the big deal here.

I feel like I said that I was stuck, which is not the case. I just accept the fact that I am new to Belzebub, and that warrior first character seems a bit hard, but I am having fun for now.

Thanks anyway, from the tests I made, drops are really terrible in cathedral nightmare even with 100-130% MF ( even at level 4, where exp is still bad )
A lot of blue are dropping, contrary to TD, where I loot much more rare/uniques, even with less MF%, due to the big density of elites/champions/bosses, and also experience is much better there with 25% less all resistances required, so I didn't see any reason for farming cathedral, since level of items is not higher compared to normal, but this is an other topic.
I also noticed that if I level up while staying in the same area, with same MP and MF%, I will have access to higher level required gear, especially from vendors, so at the end all can be good, depending on what you are looking for.

So I am farming catacombs 5-6 at MP1 with around 100% MF and 100% gold find now, where xp starts being decent, and not too hard, even if mobs can be very nasty/agressive, like spitters sometimes, but I'm getting them.

[SkyrosX2]

First tip: be concise and objective in your posts. It makes more likely people will read, and, hence, you will get more answers.
Second tip: Farming characters are first Sorc and second Rogue. Farming with any other char only makes sense if you are having fun, not if you want to maximise positive farming outcome.
Third tip: don't waste 1 second farming anywhere before Torment, or, in the very minimum least, the last level of Hell difficulty. Just race through the game with Sorc, get to LT Chests (Lost Treasure) in Torment, and farm there until you have enough gear for your other chars. With this strategy, you will have what you need to build any strong char to beat the game in Torment.

[Caocao84]

First tip: be concise and objective in your posts. It makes more likely people will read, and, hence, you will get more answers.
Second tip: Farming characters are first Sorc and second Rogue. Farming with any other char only makes sense if you are having fun, not if you want to maximise positive farming outcome.
Third tip: don't waste 1 second farming anywhere before Torment, or, in the very minimum least, the last level of Hell difficulty. Just race through the game with Sorc, get to LT Chests (Lost Treasure) in Torment, and farm there until you have enough gear for your other chars. With this strategy, you will have what you need to build any strong char to beat the game in Torment.

Thanks for answering, I am OK with sorcerer strat, and other tips given, just that I saw this MF% calculator for Tchernobog, and wanted to know there is something comparable for Belzebub: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... VyeNZyHJBP

Sorry for long posts, just that I could not find any precise answer to this precise question, but no worries, I'll just keep farming and do some tests to see.

Thanks to all of you again for taking time to read and answer.

[SkyrosX2]

Another way to play the game is to just get good save files from other people who have a bunch of stong chars and items. Some peope absolutely dislike this, others just feel it helps them saving time and getting them to the stage of the game where they can actually have fun.
If you want good files to jump over to the end game and have good stuff quickly to build up new chars, I can send you some very good saves. I have emailed dozens of people. My email: oletram@gmail.com

[Caocao84]

Another way to play the game is to just get good save files from other people who have a bunch of stong chars and items. Some peope absolutely dislike this, others just feel it helps them saving time and getting them to the stage of the game where they can actually have fun.
If you want good files to jump over to the end game and have good stuff quickly to build up new chars, I can send you some very good saves. I have emailed dozens of people. My email: oletram@gmail.com

Thanks for the proposition, but the mod is so good that I don't want to use any kind of cheat or bot, at least for now, but if I am at some point where I have to loot chests thousands of time, maybe I ll think again about that.
But I am having fun for now., just sad that there is no multiplayer, but still a very good game.

[Ugily]

Tchernobog is the multiplayer component of Diablo 1 HD Mod.

At some point, I think the object was to combine the two elements of the mod. Now Qndel and crew have taken over the further development of the Tchernobog part of the code and has come quite a long way with bug fixes and introducing the Spellblade class and changing the way crafting works,

There is still much to do, and I hope the dev team keeps it up. There are some set item bugs, many balancing issues, disabled quests to deal with on the high priority list. I hope at some future point, we reach these milestone releases. Maybe even after that there may be some expansion with Hellfire content, adding a few new spells and skills, new areas to explore.... who knows?

There is also the likelihood that another mod using a different game engine could replace this whole codebase.

[Caocao84]

Yeah, I was hesitating between both, but Tchernobog seems only advantageous if you have people to play with consistently, maybe I'll try It at some point, but for now I am playing solo, so belzebub seems the right choice to me.

[nobodytartary]

Thank you for providing this information. Actually, nobody just happens to have the knowledge that would make finding the solution to this question easy. Alternatively, you can get high-quality save files from other players that contain several characters andcoreball difficult equipment. Not everyone is on board with this, but for some, it's a time saver that allows them to get on to the fun part of the game.