Warrior questions

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 01 May, 2014 21:37

I am leveling up my warrior but i'm not sure about the points distribution. I hope for some good advices. Where should i put my stats? Only strength, or strength and vitality, or do i also need dexterity?

Stahlhagel · Post by **Stahlhagel** » 01 May, 2014 21:47

yes, you need more dex! better amorclass and CTH. you have so the chance to hit more enemys. here my point investment:

10 points goes to:

4 STR
3 DEX
2 MAG
1 VIT

Magic on Worrior is helpfule. you can cast maybe 8 spells with 200 Mana.

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 01 May, 2014 22:30

With how different this version of Diablo is from vanilla I've haven't a clue.

Both my warrior and barbarian haven't had a single sat point distributed yet since you CAN NOT respec ever. There somewhere around level 20 each at the moment.

With the skills having a synergy with strength in this version of diablo I do see a need for hard points in strength

I'd like to think that you wouldn't need a lot of dex with the extreme levels of +to hit in this mod but I've heard that you still need it (although its confusing to me at this time.)

Magic will be helpful yes, but I'd like to think you'll have a lot of +all stat gear.... I only see this really being helpful in early game but that's just my guess. Also, just like with vitality, +mana gear is much more efficient, especially for a non sorcerer. So you really only need a "magic set" for learning the spells and a good amount of +all stat and mana on your gear I would think.

I have noticed that +HP is still much more efficient than vitality even for warriors and barbarians in this game so I also would probably shy away from sinking hard points into vitality.

Like I said though, I haven't spent any points yet as I really am not sure.

riesa · Post by **riesa** » 01 May, 2014 22:57

Few weeks ago someone said that it's better to give DEX to warrior than STR because DEX increase dmg faster than STR. But... Like Jofuss said, warriors skills are scaling with STR... So i added 10pts in STR (items req) and 10 pts in DEX and smething about 70 are still waiting to be distributed, because i don't know what to do with him... It's such easier with sorc/rogue...

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 01 May, 2014 23:33

i don't see any need for magic points, except for maybe 10-15 at the beginning just to be able to read books. Warrior gets mana later in game from +magic and +mana items, so now at lvl 29 i have about 150 mana, it's enough for now i think

@ Jofuss:
The idea with getting HP items better then spending points on Vitality seems good to me.

@riesa:
I remember this post. But i suppose it is better to get items with +critchance and +crit dmg, and better sepnd the points on Str because as u said, warrior's skills are based on Str. Or is it not?

riesa · Post by **riesa** » 02 May, 2014 0:10

andronnik wrote: @riesa:
I remember this post. But i suppose it is better to get items with +critchance and +crit dmg, and better sepnd the points on Str because as u said, warrior's skills are based on Str. Or is it not?

Hmm... That's interesting... He didn;t said if it was DPS or basic dmg... But i Don't want to check it on my warrior that is pretending to be 'optimal stat warrior' xD Too many hours and item configuration was done to get him to this point, so... ;p

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 02 May, 2014 1:29

OK so now that I'm home I've got my 18 Barbarian. I have made a backup purely for the sake of testing this and do not endorse any form of cheating.

Starting from base stats, I have taken and put all available points into strength and then on a different copy of the character I put all points into dexterity. When looking at the statistics, please keep in mind that this is just the statistical data and does NOT reflect skill modifiers such as from "Cleave" and whatnot. We will see the effect on skills following.

Base:

Here are the results:

-----------------------------------------------

Strength:

Dexterity:

Strength increases base statistical DPS by 165%
Dexterity increases base statistical DPS by 187%

So here we can see that Strength clearly increases the "Critical Damage" multiplier while Dexterity increases "To hit" and "Critical Hit". I guess the question here is is there a "To Hit", "Critical Hit" and "Critical Damage" cap? If so, that makes this kind of stuff easy to figure out since any combination of these stats can be got from at least source of equipment.

-----------------------------------------------

Skills: (Since skills scale with strength, there are only before and after for the skills of 40 strength vs 130 strength.)

So as you see, you gain an addition 12 percent damage while using cleave in our little example here as well as an addition 4 full stacks of frenzy! The damage potential added by strength to the skills is clear here. I would also assume that the 27% increase in damage is based off of current statistical damage, in which case it would be an addition 12% damage OVER the base statistical damage, (difference of approximately 3.39 DPS in this example,) thus bringing us ahead of the 12% base increase deficit ,(difference of approximately 1.28,) in choosing strength vs dexterity. Theorycrafters will be able to better figure out what ratio of STR to DEX is best... taking screenshots is simple enough for me to figure out though.

TLDR; If you can get good hit chance from gear, strength is best by far.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 02 May, 2014 1:47

Jofuss, wow, you really have good nerves and patience for this

Nice work!!!!!!!! Good calculations! I would be too lazy to make such thing

Yes, as i supposed, Str is more usefull, but i didn't think that Dex wouldn't make such a big difference in the final damage. Of course, dex gives also an armor bonus (+18 in this case), but the strength based skills are more important for barbarian, and i think it would be very similar with warrior.

thank you for your help =)

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 02 May, 2014 2:03

andronnik wrote:Jofuss, wow, you really have good nerves and patience for this Nice work!!!!!!!! Good calculations! I would be too lazy to make such thing

I'm sure in my rush I calculated something wrong or said something I didn't mean to.

andronnik wrote:Yes, as i supposed, Str is more usefull, but i didn't think that Dex wouldn't make such a big difference in the final damage.

I can't say for sure not knowing the formulae but it seems that the increase in DPS is likely cooralative to the increase in critical hit chance.

It does seem that both STR and DEX apply a baseline physical damage increase to minimum damage. I would have to do a little further testing to see if its at a 1:1 ratio. It is obviously close, (if not the same,) as that both the STR and DEX version character had a base damage of 13.

andronnik wrote:Of course, dex gives also an armor bonus (+18 in this case), but the strength based skills are more important for barbarian, and i think it would be very similar with warrior.

My warrior was less in a position to do this test with but I can if you want when I have more time.

The increase of 18 armor is relatively negligible and since armor scales linearly and doesn't take into account dexterity above base armor class, you lose very little over all.

andronnik wrote:thank you for your help =)

Any time, I'm glad I could help. Please point out if any information is found to be in error or incorrect.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 02 May, 2014 13:41

nah, you've done a lot with this already

of course, if you have time and desire and patience, you can do the same for warrior, but this barbarian analysis is a good this already

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 02 May, 2014 15:26

I'd love to be able to do it at a higher level as well but I don't think I could actually stand to play a warrior or barbarian much higher than normal difficulty without allocating stat points... I'd probably rip my hair out.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 02 May, 2014 16:37

ye, then don't do it

i would never rip my hair out. It even grows on my eyes

angra · Post by **angra** » 05 May, 2014 9:52

Looks like both of you frogot about block chance which is affected by DEX. And AC bonus from DEX is not neglible.
But in any case stat distribution in Belzebul is not very important comparing to bonuses from equipment.

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 06 May, 2014 0:51

angra wrote:Looks like both of you frogot about block chance which is affected by DEX.

Touche!

angra wrote:And AC bonus from DEX is not neglible.

Compared to the increase you *COULD* gain from having less fussy equipment restrictions, or the sheer increase in DPS you *MIGHT* gain... it is negligible in my opinion. Unless of course the dex modifier adds as a multiplier instead of a base increase. In which I may have to exclaim touche again.

riesa · Post by **riesa** » 06 May, 2014 1:29

After that sentence about DEX=Shield Block (totally forgot about it... i'm stupid as hell -.- ) i've started to think that i need to make another 'perfect' warrior, cause STR-DEX ratio 4:1 starts to be a little waste of points... But in other way... With STR we can equip high AC armors and shields (DEX is quite useless here), CTH is usually on higher ilvl unique swords (Dex is useless again), jewelery with crits are hard to find but propably high lvl receipies can help us with that (as i said above about DEX)... But still this chance to block... Does high ilvl unique shields (at least one or two) have some CTB factor? If no - i've lost my DEX >;

Warrior questions

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