Hi guys, I'm currently struggling with NM Terror Domain, but I feel Rogue has immense potential and may be incredibly rewarding to play.
First I would like to inquire about significant thresholds that await.
What sort of AC is needed to be fool-proof or to work at all on Hell? I remember when my AC180 Golem faced the NM butcher, he didn't get hit at all; is there point in focusing on high AC as a Rogue at all or is it better to stay cannon-glass in this respect? In D2 the only armor users had skills that passively multiply armor values; in Belzebub maybe if I farm some 50 more AC I can avoid a good deal of danger. The same goes to chance to hit% values. And also, are there any soft STR targets that might be needed to wear some state-of-the-art uniques? Like Vampire Gaze maybe, I have my mind on getting that thing one day. Is my 81 natural str enough?
Then, skills. Is there any profit in the Sightless Eye thing? My multishot gives me 5x damage or at least 2x-3x if fired at a distance, what is the point of such a skill-dependent and slow spell such as the eye?
What other spells would you suggest for particular situations? Is Guardian useful at all? Or is higher difficulties all about teleport+multishot? Maybe some quest bosses are particularly vulnerable to Sentinel or other slowing cold spells? Share your tips and tricks, guys!
I have seen the youtube Torment rogue 4:30 video, but for me even on NM such performance is out of reach, mostly because I still don't have any mana leech, which is really hard to get and the only item with +ML is the 3% Andariel quest one. I'll give it a try once again, as mana consumption seems to eat most of my time; I play almost like a BNM back in D1 vanilla, always with 20-30 mana potions.
Tips about specific quest bosses also welcome. I killed Brutallus with pure ms+tele; I killed the Risen Hero in the same way (daaamn that was a pain, he's the worst); I'd say the quest bosses is where Belzebub really shines.
How do I upgrade my Golem? It tanked my way thru NM but right now it's getting whacked instantly by most named mobs.
I'll post more as the need arises.
Rogue gameplay discussion
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DacianDraco
- Posts: 461
- Joined: 30 Aug, 2015 4:04
- Location: Cybertron
You don't really need AC, since you won't get into melee too much and if you do you will likely just die, so focus on resistances and -DFE cause they are better for your Rogue, i for one had around 400 AC is Torment and i could have as well had half and it wouldn't make a difference. Also if you will put your points in DEX, you will get more then enough % To Hit and some AC as well.
You don't need to put any pts in STR, with up to +30 STR and +20 All Attributes on any rare jewelry piece (which only have lvl req) you get more then enough to wear what you want. Fanatic recipe can provide some more +STR (besides other stuff) on crafted jewelry on top of what i said above.
Sightless Eye is very good late game (i mean when you get higher in level) for single targets, like champions, uniqs, bosses, since it will get a ton of %dmg as you level up and with it you could do hits of thousands dmg (i've even seen over 10k).
As i've said before you only need Teleport, Golem, Insanity and Sacrifice as offensive spells. Others loose power from Normal onward, cause you have little to no MAG, and are not a caster anyway. Guardian and Sentinel are ok to the thrown before you fight a boss or whatever, but they won't do much dmg. Golem will also become just a distraction and you'll need to resummon him constantly, he won't be much of a dmg dealer or tanker as you progress.
As for mana consumption just use potions for now, that's why we got belts and up to 25 slots for potions. As your physical dmg increases the life/mana leech will be more relevant, probably end of Hell difficulty is where you'll find some more of it.
You don't need to put any pts in STR, with up to +30 STR and +20 All Attributes on any rare jewelry piece (which only have lvl req) you get more then enough to wear what you want. Fanatic recipe can provide some more +STR (besides other stuff) on crafted jewelry on top of what i said above.
Sightless Eye is very good late game (i mean when you get higher in level) for single targets, like champions, uniqs, bosses, since it will get a ton of %dmg as you level up and with it you could do hits of thousands dmg (i've even seen over 10k).
As i've said before you only need Teleport, Golem, Insanity and Sacrifice as offensive spells. Others loose power from Normal onward, cause you have little to no MAG, and are not a caster anyway. Guardian and Sentinel are ok to the thrown before you fight a boss or whatever, but they won't do much dmg. Golem will also become just a distraction and you'll need to resummon him constantly, he won't be much of a dmg dealer or tanker as you progress.
As for mana consumption just use potions for now, that's why we got belts and up to 25 slots for potions. As your physical dmg increases the life/mana leech will be more relevant, probably end of Hell difficulty is where you'll find some more of it.
As DacianDraco said, you don't need STR. I diidn't put anything in my rogue, only in DEX, am lvl 42 and have about 78 STR with my gear. You usually don't need more till that point (some awesome bows require 75), maybe later for some unique armor, but as mentioned you will get STR from gear.,
One great plus from the Sightless Eye is the high dmg it deals per hit, which puts most of the unique bosses into hit recovery, so they can't attack you. MS won't do so. Right now i crit up to 2100dmg with SE.
Manaleach: very important, but you'll get it later. I only have good gear cause i farmed it with my high lvl sorc and transferred it to my rogue. Good farm places would be the Lost Treasure, Chamber of Bones, Horazon Sanctum.
Golems HP, AC and %-to hit upgade with the difficulty lvl. But they also scale from Magic, and i think not from your AC. As DacianDraco mentioned, it becomes less useful later on.
A way to kill the Risen Hero is either Sightless Eye, or Guided Arrow while sitting in an other room.
One great plus from the Sightless Eye is the high dmg it deals per hit, which puts most of the unique bosses into hit recovery, so they can't attack you. MS won't do so. Right now i crit up to 2100dmg with SE.
Manaleach: very important, but you'll get it later. I only have good gear cause i farmed it with my high lvl sorc and transferred it to my rogue. Good farm places would be the Lost Treasure, Chamber of Bones, Horazon Sanctum.
Golems HP, AC and %-to hit upgade with the difficulty lvl. But they also scale from Magic, and i think not from your AC. As DacianDraco mentioned, it becomes less useful later on.
A way to kill the Risen Hero is either Sightless Eye, or Guided Arrow while sitting in an other room.
uRa!
I will keep some of my notes in this thread. I've wasted all day trying to approach Diablo on Nightmare.
The first very useful technique is wallhugging:
Sorry for the lecture-like style and I am sure everyone's perfectly acquainted with the concept, but maybe later someone new can find this helpful. So anyways the trick here is to TP to a spot behind a wall (further away from it's end than shown here), wait for the enemy's light radius to approach the wall's end from the other side, shoot a volley of arrows, have the enemy approach your Golem and TP right thru the wall the same instant! And then wait for them to come around the wall, so basically GOTO 10. Thus you can deal damage, summon a golem, have enough time to fill belt slots et cetera, this is very safe, and applies to the Dark Lord as well.
Second, what andronnik said above about Sightless Eye does indeed hold true and on NM TD sends both melee bosses into a very deep recovery and extends the wallhugging shooting spree and ends up being 2-3 times more efficient than Multishot, simply because of hit recovery stun.
Anyways, I've found a 9% mana leech bow :DDD but one thing is confusing me. How exactly does the damage get calculated? It's the bow's damage PLUS some default damage that you would do with any bow, how is the latter calculated? What does it depend upon? Like I remember that in D1 vanilla a meteoric dagger of haste would end up doing more damage than a king's bastard sword of extra damage; how does this work re: rogue? I have a Razor bow with puny damage (sth like 10-30) and it makes more DPS than my 40-60 short siege bow. I'm kind of a bit lost here DDD:[/img]
The first very useful technique is wallhugging:
Sorry for the lecture-like style and I am sure everyone's perfectly acquainted with the concept, but maybe later someone new can find this helpful. So anyways the trick here is to TP to a spot behind a wall (further away from it's end than shown here), wait for the enemy's light radius to approach the wall's end from the other side, shoot a volley of arrows, have the enemy approach your Golem and TP right thru the wall the same instant! And then wait for them to come around the wall, so basically GOTO 10. Thus you can deal damage, summon a golem, have enough time to fill belt slots et cetera, this is very safe, and applies to the Dark Lord as well.
Second, what andronnik said above about Sightless Eye does indeed hold true and on NM TD sends both melee bosses into a very deep recovery and extends the wallhugging shooting spree and ends up being 2-3 times more efficient than Multishot, simply because of hit recovery stun.
Anyways, I've found a 9% mana leech bow :DDD but one thing is confusing me. How exactly does the damage get calculated? It's the bow's damage PLUS some default damage that you would do with any bow, how is the latter calculated? What does it depend upon? Like I remember that in D1 vanilla a meteoric dagger of haste would end up doing more damage than a king's bastard sword of extra damage; how does this work re: rogue? I have a Razor bow with puny damage (sth like 10-30) and it makes more DPS than my 40-60 short siege bow. I'm kind of a bit lost here DDD:[/img]
I don't quite get it, for the second time now when fighting NM D he appears to somehow heal himself! This is outrageous! He doesn't like to be kited and goes to heal himself if not engaged by the player? Damn it I bought 40 full rej potions for the occasion, spent half of them and what do I see, Diablo has full health again and I am out of pots? This is outrageous!
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DacianDraco
- Posts: 461
- Joined: 30 Aug, 2015 4:04
- Location: Cybertron
Just Physical dmg is taken into account for leech, the character screen DPS shows all types and takes into account crit chance and dmg too so it's not always the best measure for a weapon's worth. And bows have a hidden bonus dmg based on DEX, other items as well like swords have a hidden bonus dmg based on STR, etc but we don't know these bonuses.
As for bows, they have different base speeds (attack time from 2nd character screen is most usefull, 300 and below is good to have) and the speed affects character screen DPS too.
And yes Diablo heals himself (more like resets himself) if you don't engage him for some time and he is left idle.
As for bows, they have different base speeds (attack time from 2nd character screen is most usefull, 300 and below is good to have) and the speed affects character screen DPS too.
And yes Diablo heals himself (more like resets himself) if you don't engage him for some time and he is left idle.
Uhh guys, I must admit I have not had the opportunity to learn how to properly apply Insanity and Sacrifice. I tried Sacrifice and it probably does wonders with life leech equipment; but what about Insanity? How does it operate, when should I use it? Simply upon meeting a big bad boss? Is it good vs Diablo? Can you tell me more about both Insanity and Sacrifice, please? Need to incorporate them into my gameplay
same was for me, it took me time to start using them.
Sacrifice you can start using when you have life leech, so that you outheal the life lost. But insanity is a must on rogue. I like to draw some big group of mobs into one place and then activate my Piercing Shots Skill & Insanity and kill em with Multiple Shots Skill. Or just for bosses, like for almost all the bosses you should use insanity + Sightless eye.
Sacrifice you can start using when you have life leech, so that you outheal the life lost. But insanity is a must on rogue. I like to draw some big group of mobs into one place and then activate my Piercing Shots Skill & Insanity and kill em with Multiple Shots Skill. Or just for bosses, like for almost all the bosses you should use insanity + Sightless eye.
uRa!
andronnik, yes, I will try doing the same. That's a nice idea, I'll have to work with my bindings a bit and try to get some practice. It makes even more sense as the hit rec threshold of the mobs I face seems to be maybe a tad bit higher than what I deal, so a cast of Insanity can be a dealbreaker.
Very late nightmare seems to be the first instance where mana leech stuff can be obtained. I had a rare bow drop with 9%, and then a rare ring with 4% [also found Manald heal]. Still a lot of mana is being wasted on Golem and TP, so even if you stay even using MS/SE, a decent mana pool is needed and some named mobs will see to it that 5-10 mana pots at least will be needed.
While preparing to face NM D, I found that in fact the farming options that Beelzebub offers are waaaaay more fun than anything I've seen in D2. Several times, I cleared the red portal guardian witch (Bloodlust?), cleared the Lazarus dungeon, and finally the terror domain; all that is very profitable and gear can be farmed with both ease and diversity in gameplay, meaning it doesn't get boring or repetitive. This is great.
So I killed The Dark Lord, finally. Had 25 FRej in belt and an entire inventory of the same; in preparations I obtained an entire stash page of Frej pots, in case I die and need to try again.
I noticed that even with Infravision Diablo is hard to see and hard to target, and teleporting around him usually positions him almost at the edge of the screen, so easily I chose Guided over MS or SE.
I confined the fight to one room, the one D spawns in; I would circle around him with TP, spawn Golem as much as I can, and simply shoot Guided in his direction. Once in a while I would TP behind the corridor wall to fill my belt with potions once again (shift-click). His Apoc dealt sth like 150-200hp, and my 450 health was quite enough, although Knight named mobs tend to deal 400+ damage with their Charge ability, so adjust accordingly.
Right now I have 270 AC and am wondering if switching to 330 with a newfound Shaftstop can make a difference in avoiding pshy damage on Hell.
Very late nightmare seems to be the first instance where mana leech stuff can be obtained. I had a rare bow drop with 9%, and then a rare ring with 4% [also found Manald heal]. Still a lot of mana is being wasted on Golem and TP, so even if you stay even using MS/SE, a decent mana pool is needed and some named mobs will see to it that 5-10 mana pots at least will be needed.
While preparing to face NM D, I found that in fact the farming options that Beelzebub offers are waaaaay more fun than anything I've seen in D2. Several times, I cleared the red portal guardian witch (Bloodlust?), cleared the Lazarus dungeon, and finally the terror domain; all that is very profitable and gear can be farmed with both ease and diversity in gameplay, meaning it doesn't get boring or repetitive. This is great.
So I killed The Dark Lord, finally. Had 25 FRej in belt and an entire inventory of the same; in preparations I obtained an entire stash page of Frej pots, in case I die and need to try again.
I noticed that even with Infravision Diablo is hard to see and hard to target, and teleporting around him usually positions him almost at the edge of the screen, so easily I chose Guided over MS or SE.
I confined the fight to one room, the one D spawns in; I would circle around him with TP, spawn Golem as much as I can, and simply shoot Guided in his direction. Once in a while I would TP behind the corridor wall to fill my belt with potions once again (shift-click). His Apoc dealt sth like 150-200hp, and my 450 health was quite enough, although Knight named mobs tend to deal 400+ damage with their Charge ability, so adjust accordingly.
Right now I have 270 AC and am wondering if switching to 330 with a newfound Shaftstop can make a difference in avoiding pshy damage on Hell.
Well, with time you'll get items which also give you +MAG and +mana, so your mana pool will increase. Still golem costs a lot, i personally also use Dark Pact quite often, instead of 1 more mana potion 
The teleport cost will shrink once you lvl it up, so you need to have items which +mag in your stash, just to equip them for reading books 
But anyway, i still use a lot of mana potions, even having +5% mana leach.
Gratz on killing next lvl diablo. Wow, 450 hp, what are you, Barbarian!?
I have 270 hp, kinda glass cannon, 2 apocalypses and i'm deeeed.
Regarding shaftstop, dunno, try it out. I personally use the Iratha Set cause of the knockback and piercing damage, even though at my lvl i could equip better stuff i guess.
The teleport cost will shrink once you lvl it up, so you need to have items which +mag in your stash, just to equip them for reading books But anyway, i still use a lot of mana potions, even having +5% mana leach.
Gratz on killing next lvl diablo. Wow, 450 hp, what are you, Barbarian!?
I have 270 hp, kinda glass cannon, 2 apocalypses and i'm deeeed.
Regarding shaftstop, dunno, try it out. I personally use the Iratha Set cause of the knockback and piercing damage, even though at my lvl i could equip better stuff i guess.
uRa!
You use Iratha's as well? I have the hat and the amulet and I'm seeeriously addicted to that combo as it gives 90+ dex and is a major source of DPS for me. And more DPS means more leech and more hitrec stun on mobs, so even though it's a huuuge loss of mana, hp and resists, I've been sticking to the Iratha's helm and amulet.
Another peculiar item that one can say is addictive is the Rattlecage unique plate mail that offers + crit chance and + crit damage, overall adding 20-30% to your DPS.
andronnik, how do you manage to bind Dark Pact to a key? Also, guys, please state your current key bindings so we can compare. Mine are: MS, SE, GA left; TP, Golem, Heal, Pierce and Insanity right.
EDIT 1:
So I gather that AC results in Physical resistance. Like 280AC is 32%, and 450 AC is roughly 55% physical resistance. Is it possible for a Rogue to reach a proper 75% ph.res AC? Maybe that would be a realistic target to aim for in the endgame; according to my approximations, that should occur at around 600 AC.
EDIT 2:
Oh God how the heck can I defeat the Risen Hero? He is more excruciatingly frustrating that any other boss. He heals and he's fast as hell and he onehitkills me all the time.
Another peculiar item that one can say is addictive is the Rattlecage unique plate mail that offers + crit chance and + crit damage, overall adding 20-30% to your DPS.
andronnik, how do you manage to bind Dark Pact to a key? Also, guys, please state your current key bindings so we can compare. Mine are: MS, SE, GA left; TP, Golem, Heal, Pierce and Insanity right.
EDIT 1:
So I gather that AC results in Physical resistance. Like 280AC is 32%, and 450 AC is roughly 55% physical resistance. Is it possible for a Rogue to reach a proper 75% ph.res AC? Maybe that would be a realistic target to aim for in the endgame; according to my approximations, that should occur at around 600 AC.
EDIT 2:
Oh God how the heck can I defeat the Risen Hero? He is more excruciatingly frustrating that any other boss. He heals and he's fast as hell and he onehitkills me all the time.
you take Dark Pact. You bind it to a key. Voila! Dark Pact became bonded to a keyhow do you manage to bind Dark Pact to a key
But i don't have it binded, i use "S" and switch to darkpact manually. My bindings are:
LMB: MS, SE, GA (on F2-F4)
RMB: Teleport, Golem, Bone Spirit (on F1,F5,F6)
The other 2 i don't use cause they are too far away
I still use the "S" button pretty much...uRa!
Can you tell me more about how Bone Spirit works and how you use it? I tried Insanity once or twice and I think it's only a so-so spell due to the high debuff afterwards and most bosses cannot be killed within one cast of Insanity. It's nice and I have it in mind, but at the moment I rarely resort to it, mostly only when working on stunlocked extra hp monsters.
I think Sacrifice will replace Insanity once I muster at least a few % of life leech.
So tell me about Bone Spirit...
I think Sacrifice will replace Insanity once I muster at least a few % of life leech.
So tell me about Bone Spirit...
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DacianDraco
- Posts: 461
- Joined: 30 Aug, 2015 4:04
- Location: Cybertron
Besides AC i believe item "family" (light, medium or heavy) also matters in calculating the Physical Resistance. But it's difficult to have a direct comparison to exactly figure this out, since AC on armors has range. With melee characters it's easy to get 75% Physical Resistance and it's significant for survivability but ranged/casters shouldn't get in melee anyway and if they do they rarely escape and just die, so i wouldn't focus on that. If you still want to pursue this and since STR is generally low on ranged/casters you can easily equip Crown/Grand Crown and Light Plate/Archon Plate, for belts a Plated Belt and later Battle Belt are best options, mainly for the max potions slots since the difference in AC is low anyway.
Now, the Risen Hero has the same AI as Diablo and so he can follow you even without direct sight, for me the answer was Guided Arrow shot in the general direction and Teleporting behind shoot over obstacles (chests mainly), i see he casts spells (Fire Wall or Healing) when he engages you and for the most part you can have him walking towards you without Charging if you have an obstacle between you both.
Bone Spirit chips off a % of life (depends on spell lvl) and fills you up with each hit, it's a Magic dmg attack so it doesn't work on Magic Immunes (doesn't work on Diablo either), with higher difficulties the uniq and boss monsters get more and more life so in Torment you can take thousands of life off with each hit, and it's an auto target attack and the only spell that leeches life, so it's one of the best spells imo. Also Insanity's life drain debuff can be countered with a life/rejuv potion, attack speed won't be countered but still the initial speed buff and dmg buff i find useful, and i don't use it always either but still on bosses it's always useful. And in Torment not many mobs are not immune to Fire dmg, so Sacrifice will be less used then Insanity, since this one gives Physical dmg which none are immune to.
Now, the Risen Hero has the same AI as Diablo and so he can follow you even without direct sight, for me the answer was Guided Arrow shot in the general direction and Teleporting behind shoot over obstacles (chests mainly), i see he casts spells (Fire Wall or Healing) when he engages you and for the most part you can have him walking towards you without Charging if you have an obstacle between you both.
Bone Spirit chips off a % of life (depends on spell lvl) and fills you up with each hit, it's a Magic dmg attack so it doesn't work on Magic Immunes (doesn't work on Diablo either), with higher difficulties the uniq and boss monsters get more and more life so in Torment you can take thousands of life off with each hit, and it's an auto target attack and the only spell that leeches life, so it's one of the best spells imo. Also Insanity's life drain debuff can be countered with a life/rejuv potion, attack speed won't be countered but still the initial speed buff and dmg buff i find useful, and i don't use it always either but still on bosses it's always useful. And in Torment not many mobs are not immune to Fire dmg, so Sacrifice will be less used then Insanity, since this one gives Physical dmg which none are immune to.
I just wasted an hour or so revisiting the Risen Hero in hopes of finishing him; what I did is I either teleported alone, no golem, behind the sarcophagus at the back end of his chamber, or teleported to the book room just outside th sarcophagus room and spawned a golem in the only door that connects the two rooms. In-between I TP to one of the side rooms.
I managed to get him to maybe 2/3 hp, but still at this point I think my DPS is too tiny (only around 1100) and I should come back once I have a proper weapon in my hands.
I would have persevered in my effort but this goddamn heal he performs renders everything just so hopeless. The idea of hiding behind chests etc works fine, but maybe if I buff my dps, I'll stun lock the bastard and finish him off much faster.
I managed to get him to maybe 2/3 hp, but still at this point I think my DPS is too tiny (only around 1100) and I should come back once I have a proper weapon in my hands.
I would have persevered in my effort but this goddamn heal he performs renders everything just so hopeless. The idea of hiding behind chests etc works fine, but maybe if I buff my dps, I'll stun lock the bastard and finish him off much faster.
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