Suggestion: Export item and monster data to text files

Wingard · Post by **Wingard** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:07

I'm not saying they can't be balanced better, I'm just saying they will never be balanced

And i agree with that.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:07

I agree with Jofuss, Belzebub's code shouldn't be open for everyone. I am very happy with they work done so far. Of course, there are some unbalanced spells and stuff, but they are working on it and i think no one else should make another version of this in-developement mod, untill they decide so.

BrightLord · Post by **BrightLord** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:14

This is not remake. Just some engine improvements and mod.

To remake a game you need new high quality graphics and sounds.

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:14

Jeeze you guys are fast... I decided to add a snippet to my post to clarify my position better but you two had already read it and responded by the time I posted the edit! O_o

BrightLord · Post by **BrightLord** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:17

Honestly I realize that whole spellcasting system is poor. It's not even worth time and effort to improve it. Currently it cannot be balanced as it is.

Spell system is something that will be redone along with some monster features.

However not now.

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:17

BrightLord wrote:This is not remake. Just some engine improvements and mod.

To remake a game you need new high quality graphics and sounds.

Don't be too modest, a lot has been accomplished here, this is more than a MOD. Although I agree its not actually a remake, you don't NEED those things for something to be a remake. This would be more akin to an "Enhanced Edition" like with the Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:20

BrightLord wrote:Honestly I realize that whole spellcasting system is poor. It's not even work time and effort to improve it. Currently it cannot be balanced as it is.

Spell system is something that will be redone along with some monster features.

I for one can say that I am NOT criticizing you BrightLord. You already have a system that is much more balanced that vanilla Diablo. There is only so much that can be done in a certain amount of time.

While I am guilty of doing it as well, I am just of the position that just saying "The spells arn't balanced" is likely less helpful than saying "Charged bolt does 60 percent more damage than firebolt and icebold and costs the same amount of mana." (Or whatever)

Wingard · Post by **Wingard** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:26

If I had more time to invest in studying this, I would likely go into special areas that are always populated by the same monsters with the same stats, (Wurm Cellar, Chamber of Bone, etc) And clear out the levels using only certain spells, taking note of the time for clearing, the amount of potions used, etc.

Come on, i dont think its necessary, its not like this game is played competitively. You see one enemy? You cast one lighting and the enemy is dead. You see two enemies? You cast one lightning and two enemies are dead. So first lightning killed one guy and the second one killed two, but both these lightnings cost the same amount of mana! How will you know when to cast the spell and on how many monsters? Training on the always-the-same areas would eventually make you remember all spots where monsters stand and cast spells knowing this, but remember about the fact that usual levels are randomly generated. Will you be always holding thespell for the moment where it will be able to hit as many enemies as possible? I dont see how anyone could care this much about this.

Some changed could be implemented by heart, by the judgement of "how do players feel about these spells" while considering "what can we do to make them more attractive to use". I say lets keep this cool.

Spell system is something that will be redone along with some monster features.

I will not warmly welcome solutions from Diablo 3 if thats what you are thinking about again... the system itself is acceptable, the specific spells are not.
Youve truly done a FANTASTIC job with this mod so far, but please dont force us into liking the changes only you like. D:

BrightLord · Post by **BrightLord** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:41

D3 is great game but there is no need to copy it.

Just want to have spell system that makes sense and is easy to balance. I have something in my mind that I never seen in other games. There is no point discussing it when it's not implemented and not tested.

If it suck it can be reverted.

qualakon · Post by **qualakon** » 27 Apr, 2014 20:58

BrightLord wrote:D3 is great game but there is no need to copy it.

Just want to have spell system that makes sense and is easy to balance. I have something in my mind that I never seen in other games. There is no point discussing it when it's not implemented and not tested. If it suck it can be reverted.

Please say socketed spells as similar to FF7 and PoE!

I'm okay with keeping the main engine of Belzebub closed source but the idea of tweaking items and spells via external files with a checksum for Multiplayer seems like a grand idea. Just my 4cents...

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 27 Apr, 2014 21:07

Wingard wrote: I dont see how anyone could care this much about this. Smile

And that's fair enough. I'm just saying that it someone spent some time in different situations using different spells naturally, they could get statistically relevant information.

If you can identify that lets say "Immolation is 20% too weak" and that "Firewall should cost 10% more mana" just from running around playing like normal, then I congratulate your powers of observation and attention to detail.

I just think changes that are objective and specific are more likely to happen than just blanket "balance high level spells" statements. People can devote as much or as little time as they want to this venture, but if you provide objective descriptions of WHY a specific change is necessary, it is probably more likely to occur.

This would realistically be no more work than fudging around with a text table and checking to see if its better but not overpowered. Whether you gather your "data" before you make the change or after you make the change, either way you need to identify if the amplitude of the change is correct.

Wingard · Post by **Wingard** » 27 Apr, 2014 21:31

[instert whole previous post here (by Jofuss)]

I accept the challenge, yo. See you in another thread i will make soon.

(Im not quoting the whole post since Noktis gets pissed off about that) Some people like to unnecessarily quote the whole post they are replying to, instead learn to do it this way kids.

Andrettin · Post by **Andrettin** » 27 Apr, 2014 21:46

BrightLord wrote:This is not remake. Just some engine improvements and mod.

If I understand correctly, this has a whole new engine, right? If so, this is way more than a mod, as Diablo isn't being modded, but rather the dataset from it is being used by the engine. I agree with Jofuss that you are being too modest.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 27 Apr, 2014 21:53

Wingard wrote: I accept the challenge, yo.

Let the battle begin!!!

Jofuss · Post by **Jofuss** » 27 Apr, 2014 22:02

(Im not quoting the whole post since Noktis gets pissed off about that) Some people like to unnecessarily quote the whole post they are replying to, instead learn to do it this way kids. Smile

Aye, I try to quote as little and direct as possible while omitting anything irrelevant.
I also *snipped* out a bunch of irelevent stuff from some posts and said "See below" when a later post clarified it in more detail.

I do what I can to try and conserve forum space when able

Suggestion: Export item and monster data to text files

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