Rogue gameplay discussion

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 10 Sep, 2016 14:16

You put some points into magic? Well, hey - your golem will be stronger than a full Dex rogue's golem!

I beat torment diablo with my first char - mage, and at that time i didn't know about leaving the guardian and golem quests for later, and i also put some points into STR. So no problem.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 10 Sep, 2016 14:38

All right then heh, I'll try to live up to the challenge. Суровые челябинские мужики

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 10 Sep, 2016 19:13

Allright I've just mnaged to kill Gam'ar for the first time on Hell. Since this is the rogue gameplay discussion, I'll freely share my notes here.

First of all, you must clean both the central corridor and Gam'ar's room fully, because you will need that space while maneuvering later. Basically this is a zero risk enterprise and you'll get whacked only if you make a rookie mistake and eat a bone spirit too many. My 320 hp held me well and was sufficient.

As you activate the Balrog boss, obviously you try to focus your SE on him; summon the Golem preemptively when it's at half health and not when it's dead [the value in this lies in the fact that once you are forced to wallhug you'll be vulnerable and without a golem; a preemptive summon will save you a few secs casting time and protect you at all times]. Your course of avoiding Gam'ar's magics will lead you to wallhug, to cross the wall, and wait for him in the corridor as he approaches. Once he is there, lead him lower and lower until you basically reach the stage exit; now here lies the nifty trick.
What you must do is to teleport waay into his room where the Terrorfiends lie. And you must basically be confident in disposing of them very handily, not letting them to intimidate you at all. Always have your Golem between you and the enemy, don't hesitate to resummon it to your location by teleporting; then with some life leech the terrorfiend army will be basically safe to engage.
Clean the room, approach Gam'ar, repeat the same exact process, but from the other side. Be sure to safely teleport away from his Bone Spirits, and basically you are safely done here; no risk, no chance of death. His BS deal maybe 150-200 hitpoints but they are slow and can be easily evaded. His nova-type attack is absolutely benign, it's hard to take any damage from it when you are kiting.
So tl;dr: kite and wallhug, and then lose aggro and clear all the terrorfiends before proceeding.

ROLpogo · Post by **ROLpogo** » 10 Sep, 2016 21:07

I got Golem 15 level after reaching 60 level and redistribute all points to magic. All horazon quests saved.

Sneeper · Post by **Sneeper** » 10 Sep, 2016 21:20

Can you respec as many times as you want on lvl60?

What does it cost?

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 10 Sep, 2016 21:46

Allright, so what can I say? One thing is for sure: 90% fire res is NOT enough. Again you can survive 2 apocs, but since D's hp is way higher, you basically run out of potions on 90% res.

One theoretical question: fighting Diablo, should I stick to GA or use SE instead?

Edit: What I did is I had 95% res and the weird thing is that Apoc did not begin doing less damage, at all. With my puny 320 hp I need too much rejuvs amd then simply run out of mana potions way before I inflict enough to kill D

sergio_cannabis · Post by **sergio_cannabis** » 10 Sep, 2016 21:51

just a tip on potions:

u can cover the whole dungeon ground with potions. so theoretically its nearly impossible to run out of potions.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 10 Sep, 2016 21:57

Yeah that is true, sergio. I did that on Normal

but on NM one full inventory was enough. I guess this needs such preparation, indeed. I'll report on my findings!

ROLpogo · Post by **ROLpogo** » 10 Sep, 2016 23:45

Sneeper, Yes and cost is time spent for clear terror domain on 10 ppl.

DacianDraco · Post by **DacianDraco** » 11 Sep, 2016 0:15

You forgot to tell him the process, he won't know how it's done unless he just farms and discovers by himself. I guess it can be a nice surprise.

Sneeper · Post by **Sneeper** » 11 Sep, 2016 10:40

When you hit 60 you get one free respec?

If you want a respec after that, how do you do it?
I'm not too fond of surprises..

sergio_cannabis · Post by **sergio_cannabis** » 11 Sep, 2016 12:31

@ rolpogo

i am interested in this mechanic as well (exp Overflow for getting another respec).

can you assume how many millions exp is needed for another respec?

if i understood you right for you just one run on dlvl 17 on Players 10 is enough for another respec?

ROLpogo · Post by **ROLpogo** » 11 Sep, 2016 13:11

(2^32) 4294967296 - (60 lvl) 4282481326 = 12485970 exp needed for next overflow & redistribute. That exp you can get for clear 17 dlvl on 10 ppl.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 12 Sep, 2016 15:52

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

I found a way to seriously reduce the amount of Apoc Diablo casts, this time again by wallhugging; if you keep him at a pretty close distance, he mostly casts fire and walks to approach melee range. So I got him to pretty much 70% of health and still had a wagonload of full rejuvs left and would have pretty much definitely beaten him. I had 470 life, 90% fire res from my magewrath, and 1900 DPS. I could even go 580 life and 1600 DPS, but 470 is enough to survive a goddamn lightning wave. I was doing fine, mostly shooting GA and teleporting, even not tanking with Golem: just shoot 5-10 times and TP and shoot again (the damn stairs in the corridor are a pain).

And then what happens? Let me tell you. The thing opens a red portal and then another one and once more and even more on top of that!!!!! All of a sudden the room is filled with literally packs of monsters! By the time I gave up (and I didn't go out easy, I tried clearing and more clearing, I mush have killed 30-40 monsters at least) there were, total, 10+ advocates and 25+ terrorfiends! And they just kept coming, more and more of them!

And I was very persistent. I ported around his chamber for maybe 3-4 minutes. How the heck am I going to win against not just Diablo but also a whole floor of incoming monsters??

Actually with the elixirs my DPS is closer to 2100. How can one defeat the big D at all with the Magewrath? Am I supposed to damn straight farm TD for a Heartseeker? No; that is a bad plan and I'd like to believe the game design is better than that and it's actually possible to frag D just with a Magewrath.

If I am supposed to hit some damage threshold and stunlock Diablo, tell me about that please. If there is stunlock against Diablo at all, I'd like to know everything. Maybe it's all because I don't cast insanity or sacrifice. Please give comments, guys. I'm disappointed.

feedback pls

DacianDraco · Post by **DacianDraco** » 12 Sep, 2016 17:50

I believe you can't ever stunlock Diablo, he doesn't have a get hit animation. And since he does all types of dmg, lightning with his red Lightning Spread, fire with Meteor Cluster and Firewall, cold with his melee attack and his version of Apocalypse is magic dmg i believe, not sure but anyway all your resistances should be as high as possible, not just fire. More -DFE always help, at least 20 is a must for any character and easily obtainable from average gear, so go for more if you can. The Golem should be up almost always, even if he dies faster than his 10s cooldown, he is the distraction you need to have Diablo walking and hitting him in melee, and basically not casting stuff at you. If you feel he opens too many portals move to another room and use the wall there, his summoned minions don't follow you there if they don't have direct sight of you. Buff with Insanity and Sacrifice as often as you can, and Teleport to avoid getting hit, with enough distance between the two of you and the average speed of his spells you can escape with Teleport if you look out for the spell coming at you. Always use all 4 elixirs, drop an inventory of Full Rejuv pots somewhere on the floor just in case and maybe even hop through some waypoints to use Telekinesis on nearby shrines for buffs. I believe that's all you can do to prepare, so just keep trying, well maybe not today since it may have irritated you this time but you'll eventually do it, i'm certain of it. I've done it at clvl 41 without any points spent from leveling or quest rewards and only 1 lvl of spells learned, so a huge handicap and it did took me a few tries to get it done, but still the idea is it's possible anyway you try to do it, so don't feel discouraged and keep at it, you will do it and it will be a huge relief and joy of accomplishing the hardest thing in game so far.

Rogue gameplay discussion

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