Pointers for new Rogue?

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Ruinz
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Pointers for new Rogue?

Post by Ruinz »

Hey guys, been playing for around a week and really enjoying the game so far. Currently at the classic terror domain Hell grind with Sorcerer and planning on completing that and jumping straight to Torment LT for a little while.

Also going to start a Rogue character. With my Sorc it was too late before I clued in that holding off on +1 Guardian/Golem quests was hugely beneficial, so basically looking for pointers regarding rogues before I make a similar gut wrenching mistake.

Any tips for quickly grinding up a rogue would be much appreciated, from reading up it seems at the very least I need Bow of the Dead? Can rogue still get through Torment with that lesser version of HS? Does "ignore target defense" happen to proc on rare quality bows?

Also for rogue, if anyone could provide some details about stat point distribution that would be much appreciated. Really unsure how the char build works.

Thank you!!

EDIT:: Also... I did happen to find Magewrath while leveling the Sorc, is it basically just a coin flip between Magewrath and Heartseeker? Lmk
SkyrosX2
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Post by SkyrosX2 »

Ok, my suggestion comes straight from my experience (which includes researching and asking A LOT here in the forum): like I mentioned in your other post, just jump straight to LT in Torment. There you can find pretty much all gear that will get your Rogue equipped enough for Terror Domain in Torment difficulty.
Then, with this Rogue (which is the most OP char for Terror Domain in Torment) you can farm the best items in the game.

That's pretty much what I did, and that covered all my needs for my Rogue, my Sorc and the other chars I played with.
For Rogue, just go straight 100% for DEXTERY. All Strenght for equipment and Magic for Spell Books can be satisfied with proper gear.

About Golem AND Guardian spells: simply do not complete the quests until you have these spells at level 11 from BOOKS. After getting them at leve 11 from Books, go back to the quest in each difficulty and complete them. Then you'll have the spells at maximum level.
(Guardian is not a "must", for Rogue it is not very useful; but for Golem it is VERY helpful to have a strong Golem!)
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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo »

-Optimally, you should use your Sorcerer to farm gear for your Rogue. Then once she has a nice good collection of different 'suits', she can go for a hard line all-DEX plan and gear into other stats. If you come across a situation where her current 'suit' isn't working, you can then just Town Portal back to town real quick and change, and in the process entirely redirect what her plan of action is. This will give her the best adaptability in the game.

-If that level of grinding isn't up to your tastes, however, there are many, many different workable alternates for Rogue that work just as well. She should pretty much never put points into VIT, but STR and MAG will be useful to her throughout the game so it's not nearly as much of a dealbreaker for her if she deviates from the optimal path.

-For spells, she will absolutely, no question need a good Golem. Lumpy is always useful for taking hits but the Rogue also uses it to draw and kite foes into sniping range. Teleport is also very good for distancing and emergencies (especially against charging/teleporting enemies) so it should be high in your book too. Mostly you'll want to concentrate on building her class skills, since all of them will come in useful throughout the game.. but you might as well get her some other useful spells too. My favorite is Guardian since it's going to work as an excellent early warning system long after it's doing any real damage, and of course any AoE spell like Chain Lightning will be good for clearing hordes.

-Your big disadvantage with the Rogue will be her poor DPS (both physical and magic) and squishiness, making bosses difficult to deal with. Most Rogue players get very frustrated trying to deal with Normal Diablo because they won't be dealing nearly enough damage even if Lumpy is taking all of Dib's hits. (This is where having that magic-boosting gear will come in useful). That's why Ignore Target Defense is so much more important for the Rogue in later levels, they're too much of a jack-of-all-trades to get in any reasonable damage on bosses without it.

Hopefully that's enough of a starting point. If you have additional questions go ahead and ask.
As far as I know, ITD does not adjunct on anything but uniques. :(

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Ruinz
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Post by Ruinz »

Wow I'm way too impatient lol! Calling it a day after getting to lv23 Rogue, should have just waited and kept checking up on the post cause..... I definitely wasted quite a few stat points. Yikes.

Will continue working on completing Hell Diablo. Was very surprised with number of Uniques/sets/rares/etc in the roughly 50 LT runs I did in Hell at 225% MF. Not really the items I needed but the drop rate is ridiculous.

Thanks a lot for the pointers! Appreciate it :)
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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo »

I've always thought if I had one piece of advice to give to newer players, it would be not to sweat their early game level stats. It seems like such a huge, huge deal when you're starting out but once you start grinding that sweet later gear that's giving +20 to all stats and stuff, it's less and less of an issue. If you look at it the right way, the game is just a series of vastly different puzzles with varying solutions: "Can I get through that horde?" "Can I take this guy down before he kills me with his poison?" "Why do succubi wear thigh-high boots with attached stilletto heels?" Sometimes those right answers are going to be easier if you're NOT optimized... I can think of at least a few times a Death Knight stun locked me into submission that might not have happened if I'd had a little more VIT.
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KJYKJY1985
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Post by KJYKJY1985 »

With my Sorc it was too late before I clued in that holding off on +1 Guardian/Golem quests was hugely beneficial, so basically looking for pointers regarding rogues before I make a similar gut wrenching mistake.
Oh crap! I thought about this, but figured it just wasn't that important. I figured my Sorcerer would have enough magic to read all of the books anyway and it wasn't really that important for my other characters. I've only done it for two difficulties for my Sorcerer and one for my Rogue, and I'm planning on getting my other spells to level 15 the hard way anyway for my Sorcerer. How much magic does it take to read the level 12-15 Golem and Guardian books anyway?
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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo »

According to the documentation, Guardian progresses as follows:
12 - 436 mag
13 - 523
14 - 627
15 - 752

Golem is a little bit muddier.
12 - 590 mag
13- 708
No listing for 14 or 15

I wanna say I saw an update on this somewhere but I can't seem to find it now.
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KJYKJY1985
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Post by KJYKJY1985 »

Oh my! Did I just screw myself by doing the quests even once? I can't imagine getting 590 magic with my Rogue or 708 magic with my sorcerer. Are these numbers even possible? What about spells you don't get from quests? I can't imagine getting a level 15 Apocalypse or Blizzard for example. How much +magic can you can from equipment and how much do elixirs give you (they seem to vary when I use them)?
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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo »

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Each spell level advance is only about as half as good as the one before it, so once your spells get to level 9 or so you're looking at a pretty bare benefit for the work you need to do to get it higher. You MAG stat will have a much bigger overall impact on how effective they are. Just keep it in mind for future characters.

I wanna say I read somewhere on here that the hypothetical limit to the MAG stat is something like 808, but I could just be pulling that out of my ass since I can't seem to find the original discussion.
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KJYKJY1985
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Post by KJYKJY1985 »

The formula seems to be +20% requirements per level, so the 14 and 15 Golem spells requirements would be 849 and 1,019 respectively and a level 15 spell requires ~12.84 times as much magic as a level 1 spell. If you're right, it's theoretically impossible to get beyond a level 13 Golem without the quest or to get maxed out on a number of other spells. If I'd known just how insane magic requirements in this version got, I would've abstained from those quests!
Does that figure you gave include the full effect of elixirs, shrines and fountains of tears?
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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo »

Ah, I found the thread. Turns out I was off by more than 200 points.
http://awake.diablo1.eu.org/maximum-mag ... um%20magic

Silly me forgetting how to boolean.
Anyway yes, the real theoretical limit for magic is about 1150 (with some discussion on that point); that would allow plenty of room to learn level 15 Golem without a single use of the extra levels... assuming you want to spend the time to find the recipes for and then craft the perfect gear for it. I don't think we ever got a better answer on the rest of the high-end spells though.
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