Rogue gameplay discussion

DacianDraco · Post by **DacianDraco** » 06 Sep, 2016 21:56

I haven't and wouldn't use the Golem cause from what i noticed he mostly uses spells (Healing and co) when he is engaged (fighting maybe is the better word for it), with you or the Golem, as i've said i had him continuously walking (not with Hasted modifier) and shot Guided Arrows in his direction while Teleporting behind chests outside of his cross shaped room, and of course the level was cleared beforehand cause i didn't need distractions. I admit it wasn't easy for me and if this is too tedious now it's understandable, so it's probably best to come back after you get some more levels and you can just stunlock him with Sightless Eye, Healing surely won't be a problem then. And good luck with your future adventures.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 06 Sep, 2016 23:43

@Dacian Draco

doesn't work on Diablo either

Lol, that's how i kill diablo. With a proper M-Res penetration, Bone Spirit seems to be almost the only way to kill torment diablo with sorcerer. Well, not finally kill him, but get him very low, and then finish him with either Chain Lightning or Blood Star or whatever.

@un86rn
Bone Spirit is truly a great spell, but not the best for Rogue. It works kinda like DacianDraco explained. I'll just add a few more details.

It chips off a % of current life, so with each hit it deals less dmg and heals for less. Let's say for example your bonespirit says it deals 33% of target's current life in damage. If your target is at normal difficulty and doesn't have any M-Res, then you would indeed deal 33% per hit. But with higher difficulty, monsters get more and more m-res, so you would deal less then 33% of current life, let's say only 10% (At some point even no magic damage). But if you get "Reduces Target Magic Resistance"-items, the % would rise again. I don't know the exact figures, but some monsters which are immune to resistances seem to have an "immunity CAP". For example with 10% m-res penetration you deal 0 dmg to them, but with 20% penetration you would deal some damage.

So for Rogue Bone Spirit is probably efficient only mid game. The problem with Rogue is that 1)You can't get very high lvl of Bone Spirit since you lack MAG for learning the books. 2)your cast speed is slow in comparison to sorcerer 3)you usually don't have magic penetration items (with some exceptions, for example Magewrath Bow)

Sorry for many text... Very characters... Such detailed... Wow

DacianDraco · Post by **DacianDraco** » 07 Sep, 2016 0:38

Interesting, it didn't work in Normal so i figured by Torment his resistances increase and i'd need too much -% Magic Resistance to break it, and i don't really keep staves that break Magic since i use other elemental spells most. Do you remember how much you had? I guess it must be from Elemental Drain and some more from a staff to work. I know that's how it works for Gam'ar with Skull Collector, so maybe a similar value, i have to try it out with the Sorcerer when i decide to replay.

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 07 Sep, 2016 1:32

Elemental Drain is a must indeed, and i had smth about 17-20% m.res.-penetration on my staff, if i remember correctly. One staff with 30% Lightn. & 22% Cold penetration, and the other with Magic & Fire (smth between 13-20%).

Without it it's a pain in the ass to kill diablo (which it is anyway, lol). The great advantge of this spell is that you do %-hp dmg, and it's auto-aim. So elemental drain + Temporal Slowdown so you can cast lot's of spirits while taking little dmg = profit.
Only chain lightning is possible too, but takes hell of a time. But i remember on Nightmare i killed Diablo only with guardians, while he was stuck behind a wall due to some bug where he "lost" you

. Though this might not work anymore, since i think his AI got improved in some patch.

sergio_cannabis · Post by **sergio_cannabis** » 07 Sep, 2016 11:22

i drain his life with -29 magic res staff (blood spirit) in combination with elemental drain. it's easy as fuck (on torment). i kill him by using guardian with -34% fire res staff.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 07 Sep, 2016 16:31

This is the only game that makes me feel sooo uneasy with regards to it's boss level. Just the thought of facing the cursed Gam'ar and his buddy Bloodlord, this time on Hell, gives me a feeling hard to articulate, an overt anxiety, a sensation of impending doom, if you like.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 07 Sep, 2016 18:48

Ahhah, so this surely made my pulse rush.

Immediately I thought that RNGesus loves me and here is the object of my dreams and desires, as early as Hell/Caves. Now I see that RNGesus merely desires to troll me.

Well it was a Magewrath. Which was also a coveted bow because of the leech, but now that I have it on my hands, I see it just doesn't fit anywhere neatly into my build. The high DPS comes from Fire damage with only 19% of it applied if a mob is immune. The rest of the stats are so-so and the bow is slow. I am still thinking my simple Razor bow might even be better. Compare:

With my Emerald Razor Bow I can wear a lot of pure DPS gear like the Rattlecage which alone grants a 33% DPS increase. With Magewrath I get better DPS and some utility like huge +HP bonus on the plate mail that will replace Rattlecage. But most of MW's DPS is Fire-based and my Razor bow probably does more pure physical DPS due to IAS.

Although the +max.f.res is very nice, I already have both Demonspike Coat and Nokozan Relic. [/img]

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 07 Sep, 2016 19:10

@sergio_cannabis
-29 mres sound great! Good staff.
But what about killing it with guardians? How do you do that? Just constantly TP-ing around and spamming them, or you spam an army of them before unleashing diablo?

@un86Rn
Lol, this troll!

Well, the effects of the Nocozan Relic and Magewrath can't stack wholely together. The max resist you can reach is 90%, i think....

I am not sure which bow is better, the good AS and the resistances from the Razor Bow are good. But at this lvl the mobs get high physical resistance as well, so you don't deal true dmg as the DPS shows either

Just see the physical resistance as similar to the other 4 resistances in game. You need penetration to break them. Either by "reduced physical resistance" stat on some items, or by "ignore target's defense", which is best!

So the Magewrath has at least the Magic Penetration.

From the other side, you are right, some mobs are immune to magic. I suggest you to simply try and note the exact dmg that you deal to some mob classes or to some bosses with Sightless Eye or so, thus you'll be able to compare the two items.

sergio_cannabis · Post by **sergio_cannabis** » 07 Sep, 2016 19:25

i use bone spirit until diablo only got no seeable life left in the bar and then i switch to my -fire res staff and tele around and cast guardian. the whole process takes just 1 min, maybe less.

fire res can be stacked up to 95%.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 07 Sep, 2016 19:47

Really? Are you sure this is the way ITD works? I thought it just sets the AC itself to zero, are you sure it also reduces the physical resistance as well? That would be much better than just reducing AC, because at the moment the only targets that bother my hit rate are behemoths and I thought maybe just have an ITD bow in the second gear slot but otherwise to use a normal weapon.
If ITD reduces the phys res to zero, it is then even more to be sought after, I guess.

Still I am pondering employing MW specifically against D. With 95% res I can probably kick his ass even faster than it went on Nightmare. Just port, point, click, port, point click. Gotta test it ^^

Miso_Niz · Post by **Miso_Niz** » 07 Sep, 2016 21:57

I've tested dealing damage on my barb to compare ITD weapon and non ITD weapon at each difficult.

Weapon1 - Viz Jaq'Tar retaliation (ITD with reduce phy resist to enemy)
Weapon2 - Doombringer (non ITD)
target - skelton/zombie on each difficult

<normal>
Viz : 5-5.3K on critical
Doom : 4.5-5.5K on critical

<Nightmare>
Viz : 5-5.3K on critical
Doom : 4-5K on critical

<Hell>
Viz : 5-5.3K on critical
Doom : 3.5-4.5K on critical

<Torment>
Viz : 5-5.3K on critical
Doom : 3-3.5K on critical

So i think ITD forces enemys AC(and phy resist) to zero.
And then, it has increased by +10% phy resist each on difficult. just IMO though.
(Normal=0%, Nightmare=10%,Hell=20%...?)

andronnik · Post by **andronnik** » 07 Sep, 2016 23:08

Miso_Niz, thank you for testing it out and clarifying us on this! Great job.

@sergio
holy, 95% is badass! This "only" 5% difference from 90 to 95% means 2 times less damage.

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 08 Sep, 2016 9:26

Короче, всё с вами понятно :3

Anyways, can anyone post a pretty much endgame Rogue complete item build?

ROLpogo · Post by **ROLpogo** » 08 Sep, 2016 10:49

My set is as follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-O0-S1 ... e=youtu.be

un86Rn · Post by **un86Rn** » 08 Sep, 2016 12:00

I've noticed one weird and unexpected thing and it is that +fire damage crits just as well as physical does. I finally found a proper obsidian jewelry piece and that allowed me to equip the Magewrath. DPS went from 1200 to 2100 and I am impressed; what the razor bow damaged at 250/700 MW damages at 400/1300, so a very viable bow.
I am a bit worried that I'll have a hard time finding enough mana leech for me Heartseeker.

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